h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Wind power is the same as SWL's water wheel. If there's no wind there's no power; if ther's too much wind there's no power. The only reason they are sprouting up all over Uk is because of massive, uneconomic subsidies. Without gas, coal and nuclear to maintain a spinning and peak reserve wind power would not be viable to maintain the cosy lifestyles we have become acustomed to.

Now, if you want a long term, sustainable, reliable and environmentally friendly method of power generation look to tidal power. Tides rise and fall twice a day and we can predict when and how high into the next century. That's what I call energy security.

"hmmm, but you still need the oil to power the electric, yeah? I thought that if there was no oil in the equation then it was hard to get enough electricity to get the same power as you would from a petrol/diesel etc engine."

Actually electric motors produce far more power for their size and weight than internal combustion engines. The motors that power trains for example are hidden away down by the wheels, the 'engine' at the front is almost entirely diesel generator. They also produce fairly constant torque regardless of speed, so you don't need big heavy gearboxes with all the losses that goes with them.

As other have said, the problem is storing the energy needed to power them. Oil just happens to be very convenient and holds a lot of energy per litre, but it is not the only option: you can take it straight from the grid dodgem-style, or use hydrogen.

"Except transmission of electricity isn't that efficient from power stations. Another good reason to use micro and local power schemes"

That's true. Transmission line losses are significant. Local is therefore better, though again the most likely solution is small conventional (i.e. fossil fuel powered) generators or fuel cells. Solar and wind are fairly useless in this regard unless the whole neighbourhood is happy to go without power at night or when there's no wind.

IMO the best use of solar and wind turbines is in the production of hydrogen for transport. That way their intermittent nature doesn't matter, and none of the energy they produce goes to waste.

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Doesn't that depend on not being able to store the power generated? Why not generate hydrogen for home use as well?

at the thought of a cryogenic hydrogen tank in my shed. But if they can put them in cars, I guess it's feasible.

Aren't hydrogen fuel cells much safer than gaseous hydrogen tanks? That's what I was thinking of. Not that I really know the difference.

Hydrogen gas storage is not feasible, try googling 'The Hindenberg' for an example of why this is never likely to be a good plan **

Hydrogen storage for chemical cells is done by absorbing it into a solid matrix which is several orders of magnitude safer. This is not really ready technology though - still very much in the research stage mostly I'd say.






**I trust most that don't need google for this

Googling for _Hindenburg_ is likely to yield even better results

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these local systems would reduce our dependancy on large central power generation, not replace it, we would be using far less coal, oil, gas, power in the day when demand was highest, and the coal, gas, oil, stations would meke it up at night when demand was lowest

reducing our carbon emmisions overall

Granted; I was referring to replacement.

In many places in the world it's perfectly feasible to use solar and wind at the micro or home level and still have electricity at night

If you factored in passive solar design, smaller houses, better insulation etc, then it's not that hard to have a very comfortable house running off-grid (although at this point in time it can be fairly expensive).

"In many places in the world it's perfectly feasible to use solar and wind at the micro or home level and still have electricity at night"

At night when there's no wind? How?

Deep cycle batteries.

Passive solar design including heat sinks.

Solar hot water, although I guess that depends on how much hot water you use and when.

when i was in cyprus the barrack block had a massive solar panel to heat water and the water was pipeing hot in the showers first thing in the morning

The only one of those three that'll keep the power on when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow is the batteries, and you won't be doing the environment any favours if you fill your garage with enough lead-acid batteries to power a house.

In answer to the original question, there is no technical reason why you couldn't build and run a nuclear plant without oil, just logistical reasons. If you really needed oil for lubrication or whatever, you could manufacture it.

Slightly off topic, I note that our (i.e. the UK's) new fleet of submarines will never need refuelling. Ever. If we wanted to discuss tonnes of diesel not burnt, we're probably be talking millions. That kind of thing puts the relative pros and cons into perspective, I feel.

<< If you really needed oil for lubrication or whatever, you could manufacture it.>>

LARD!!!!!!!!!!!

A highly unrelated resource, indeed.

Unrelated? Underrated. Time to go to bed, clearly.

Whale oil, (Sperm Oil specifically), used to be a widely used lubricant. If oil runs low or gets too expensive, perhaps we could go back to that?