h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I did? No, I didn't, Peet. I didn't skip from #700 straight through, I just went and checked...It's the way it shows up here, I think. Oh, what do I think,I'm confused!

Okay, TBTPM, you didn't make the decision, but you support it! Of course he didn't have the right to rape and murder the woman, but I don't believe that killing him achieves a thing,for him, her family or for society!

Well, TBTPM, here is one thing where I have to disagree with you... I cannot see any situation where killing is the 'right thing to do'. Any. Ever. The only circumstances where I can see myself killing anyone, would be in defence of my child(ren). But as I am a woman of 5'1" tall, my success in that endeavour is extremely unlikely! (No, I don't have a gun, I have never had a gun, I will never have a gun. Period, as you Americans say.)

But. If I killed a would-be burglar to defend my son (who is 6 inches taller than I am and likes gun, tho' he's 15,and so if more likely to be defending me)if, as I say, I killed someone, I know that *it* *would* *still* *be* *wrong* however necessary!

"the victim's family always want the perpetrator in a murder case to be killed "

Sorry Zagreb, you're wrong! Robert Anton Wilson, the novelist was in the 1970s, circulating an essay he wrote about his daughter's murder, and how he and the rest of her family DID NOT WANT the perpetrator executed! There are others too, I just can't remember their names. Although you're probably right that most who don't want bloody retribution are Christians, not all are - Wilson certainly isn't.

Robert Heinlein... eeeyugh! A friend of mine once anagrammed his name as Thin Senile Old Bore. (Robert Anson Heinlein). He was Ayn Rand's first non-teen follower back in the '40s, Alan Greenspan being another.

Not that that invalidates (necessarily) what he says in his novels - but his views are invalid - they just are. Anyone see or read Starship Troopers recently?

Della, if you click the "In reply to this posting" link of the message I was commenting on, it shows you clicked the "reply" button on post #700...

The film of "Starship Troopers" was effectively a satire of neo-fascism. Surely you noticed?

Since both the current skins display the latest replys at the end of the list, no matter which post you were actually replying to, it helps if you start any mid-thread reply with something like "Name, re: Post #xxx,..." so you don't confuse people who don't know how to navigate the reply threads...

So were all the "Robocop" movies... Weird...

NO NO NO NO NO!!!



I don´t agree with most opinions in here on this matter.

King of the jews and Della i think sspeaks a good case

The problem is that any system fails, and when failing in this matter the consequences are just as unfortunate, as when a murderer kills someone innocent. Just as I want to protect my loved ones from a killer I would want them to be protected from some failure in the juridical system (AND THIS HAPPENS).Imagine your wife/husband being killed for NO REASON AT ALL by the system.For this ONE reason I´m against the death penalty; to protect my loved ones.And if I DID live in a country where that might happen, be sure I would want to go out and kill everyone of those involved in the actions leading to my innocent wifes death; in this I agree with Two Bit...Moron, we cannot (or only with big effort) surpress that feeling of revenge, but that is EXACTLY why we have courts to deal with theese things: An independent party.And as such it has the possibility to be human so far as to recognize that it should do EVERYTHING IN IT`S POWER to prevent innocent lives to be taken.As for putting the decicions on the system, all I have to say is that we (the socalled democratic western countries W/USA in the leading position) all elect our leaders
roughly in the way of 1 man 1 vote, so we all have a resposibility if our government kills anyone innocent: ALL OF US, that´s how democracy works; you give some and you take some.(i.e. Germany 1945-1989.)
Criminals should be punished in proportion to their crimes, and what any society deems foul and intolerable crimes shall not be taken lightly upon.I have no objections on lifetime imprisonment, but I DO have objections as to under which circumstances it must be served.Again from "innocent wife" POW let´s do this the human way,there´s no reason to treat criminals as animals, and humiliate and kill them.Depending on the crime I´m in favor for anything from social duty(but NOT the american way where you hang a sign around their neck saying "I´m a wife beater" and send them out to mow lawns for elderly people.THATS SICK) over regular imprisonment to education, social rehabilitation and life without parole; but in a human way.
Also it looks like death penalty don´t have any preventing effect on crimes, but I don´t know statistics on this and find it morte or less irrelevant.

Who was it saying something about some killer not deserving to breathe the same air as him???.I´ve heard this said before, usually in bars when very drunk.It must be on my top 10 list, ranking high with "castrate all rapists", of "Stupid Remarks". I usually get into loud discussions at that point, becoming very unpopular for saying, that next time it might be YOU that someone want´s not to breathe the same air as him,; and you would have to accept it.....DUUDE.


Call me a bleeding heart anytime


A country can not be a member of the EU if it has the death penalty.

(Personal Memo. 1 thing to like about the EU if nothing else)



T´mershi Duween.......



.......strolling off to play some online bridge, needing a "CArdSmiley" here.

......And correct that to "Germany 1933-1989..."

thanx

TM

....TD even....

I've always liked Heinlein, but I take what he sez with a grain of salk. (Jonas, that is...) I thought that there wasn't a novel of his I didn't like - until I read Starship Troopers. Couldn't finish it, because I couldn't get past all the militaristic patriotism. I tried again a couple of years ago (about when the movie came out), and decided I liked it despite all that.

As to whether it's supposed to be satire... Heinlein of course is an ex-military type himself. I think he used to be a radio man. He left because of health reasons, so I suspect Starship Troopers is what it appears to be - an attempt to drum up patriotism and interest in the military. The book's about 'earning' a place in society by serving in the military. Once you've served your time, you get to be a Citizen, with the right to vote.

The movie, on the other hand, was a little odd. It missed the point of the book (which might have been a blessing), didn't include the powered armor, which was the coolest thing about the book, and had lots of extremely graphic shots of bugs splattering and men dying, which wasn't the point of the book at all. So it might have been intended as satire... I hope so! I've enjoyed watching the movie, and I'll probably watch it again.

Another good movie adaptation that missed the point of the book... Puppet Masters.

*I* thought the "Starship Troopers" movie hurled chunks. It was nice to see 'Doogie Howser' doing an 'adult' role (I thought his 'nazi' was as scary as a Ferengi...) , and I'd never seen Denise Richards before, so there was something good in it, but...

And I know how important my opinion of it is, so you can all relax now.

My real reason for sticking my nose back in:

T'mershi Duween, welcome and I think you'll find a lot of us here are against the death penalty. More power to us.

However, I wanted to let you know that Two-Bit Trigger Pumping Moron is not a moron, despite some of the opinions he holds. He and I have disagreed about many things over the months, and neither of us is ever likely to change the other's mind, but he has earned a great deal of respect for me because of his ability to listen to opposing views, and then argue against them point-by-specific-point rather than with a broad, knee-jerk shotgun blast. (Must be part of that detective analysis thing...) In return, I try to argue back with logic instead of emotion. I so disagree with his positions on so many things, but I enjoy those disagreements: they force me to further clear up the fuzzy (knee-jerk) thinking in my own head.

Soon he will be powerless before me. Resistance is futile.

-7rob7

First and foremost, I'd like to explian my nickname is in reference to a S.F. band--lest anyone be offended. OK. The Dealth Penalty. I was glad when I checked back here to see, yes, obviously, that there were some who shared my views, but moreover, because of the line of questioning/considerate thoughtful responding that had taken place. I get extremely disheartened living in the part of the world I do--the US & Connecticut, at that. Coming from San Francisco and having been allowed to pursue a lifestyle without predjudice and then to come back to this dump...Anyway, back to the issue @ hand. Whenever talking about the Dealth Penalty somebody is almost certain to say, "What if it was your mother?"--which illustrates the exact nature of the problem. When it is your mother is precisely when you don't ask the question. Justice, by definition, is supposed to be unemotional and unbias--it is to mete out the appropriate punishment in an even-handed, fair manner. I completely agree w/ TD. I have seen far too many cases involving acquaintences and police interferrence. I've seeen drugs planted, money stolen. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, right? I think that this, probably more than any other issue, speaks of how far off base and outside the majority (as far as the rest of the civilized world is concerned), the US is. The US has some of the highest rates of child abuse. Do you think that is just a coincidence? As Frank Black said, "When all you see is violence..." I, for one, do not want to be associated with the likes of Iran and China in terms of human rights! We need to get away form this tit for tat mentality! It is a sad fact of life that sociopaths and murderers and rapists exist; but they do. It's hokey and maybe even cliche, sure, but forgiveness goes along way in terms of spiritual growth. OK, I'll stop now. Thank you. By the way, speaking of Robert Anton Wilson, has everyone been as deeply affected by the "Illuminatus Trilogy"?

I have never and will never call Two bit.... ,or anyone else, a moron for having different wievs on things than me. I was just too lazy spelling out his whole name. Just as I do for instance Della instead of Della the catwoman Sorry if it came across in a different way






TD.

This was e-mailed to me earlier today...

Number of physicians in the US: 700,000.
Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 120,000.
Accidental deaths per physician: 0.171

Number of gun owners in the US: 80,000,000.
Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups): 1,500.
Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

“FACT: Not everyone has a gun, but everyone has at least one Doctor.“

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand. As a Public Health Measure, I have withheld the statistics on Lawyers for fear that the shock could cause people to seek medical aid..

()

What about the non-accidental gun death figures though

Are there really that many gun owners? That is scary!

k

Do you really want to start to examine what is ailing that sick cow? The medical profession in America and the whole "more money/better care" aspect is more than a little troublesome...

I heard that the ancient chinese had a great system. For every patient that died in their care, they had to hang a lantern outside of their house. This way you knew who was good at the job....

In addition to which, they didn't get paid until you were cured of whatever it was that ailed you or it was shown you didn't follow their prescriptions.

I noticed no mention of HMO's in my study of history.......progress or regress, you decide.