h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Oh. My. I've just read of a sad, petty little incident involving a regular little American soldier that is just not going to help his comrades in Iraq :

"The shaky relationship between occupier and occupied came to the fore in a confrontation Sunday
morning in Fallujah, a restive town west of Baghdad that's seen a number of attacks on U.S. troops since
the Americans shot and killed 20 protesters during a demonstration in April.

A shouting match broke out when an Iraqi civilian, Jamal Shalal Habib al-Mahemdi, accused a U.S.
soldier of stealing $600 from his car.

The soldier tried to wave the man on, but, at the behest of bystanders, his superior officer, Sgt. James A.
Phillips, searched his pockets and found the money. Phillips then returned the bills to al-Mahemdi, who
waved them above his head and cursed the soldier.

It was not clear if the soldier, whose name was not immediately available, would be disciplined. Maj.
Sean Gibson, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad, said he had not heard of the incident but was sure it
would be investigated.

The incident was witnessed by an Associated Press photographer. "

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/030629/w062930.html

Now, that has got to be one of the most ill-advised bit of petty thievery in a long time.

well it will be an artical 15 for him if not more...his Sgt. did a good thing by checking on the complaint


()

There's that pesky article 15 again. You know, some choose court martial over article 15.

being young and stupid doesn't always mean being punished for the rest of your life...but then again it all depends


()

What do you suppose somebody would get for asault-rifle-and-grenade-armed robbery of $600.00 back home?

depends on who his lawer was and who his mother and father were

FYI Maximum punishments for this type of thing is as follows...it would more then likely be concidered a robery-these of course being from military regs

Maximum punishment for larcency
article 121- larceny/theft
bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinemnt for one year for military property of a value of $100 or less

bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 6 months for property other than military property of a value of $100 or less

dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 10 years for military property of a value of more then $100, or of any military motor vehicale, aircraft, vessel, firearm, or explosive.

dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years for property other than military property of a value of more than $100, or of any military mortor vehicale, aircraft, vessel, firearm or explosive.


robery
don't have the article
dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinment for 15 years if crime is committed with a firearm.
dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 10 years for all other cases.

now I wasn't there and I can't say what happened or anything about this kid...was it a good kid that just had a moment of weekness or was it a dirtbag just finaly getting caught...now if it's a good kid do you want to ruin him or do you want him to learn from his mistake and make him a better soldier

now there have been some kids that have made mistakes that could of got them booted out but they were given a second chance and made good...like some kid named colon powel that lost his firearm while stationed in overseas

you know what is really sad...I have more faith that this situation will be taken care of correctly then I do of some punk kid here in the states doing something similer


()

I agree with that last point particularly. The thing I think is the most sad about this is what it's going to do to all the poor American kids that are stuck over there because they wanted free college. Now, (if there was anybody left in Iraq that didn't already think it) they'll be seen as a bunch of thieving invaders and treated accordingly, which really, despite what we may think of the reasons they got sent there, is not fair to the poor putzes that lead honest lives and just went to "fix machines".

well lets face it wether this happend or not some people were going to think that...then again the people at the childrens hospital that just got supplies from the military might think diffrently...it's all a matter of perspective...no matter what happens there is going to be good or bad images and ideas formed about americans by people abroad or at home...happens...now I found it quite interesting the signs I saw on the news the other night asking for bush to intervien and americans to help out in a totaly diffrent contry on another conintent hmm now if the US was to intervien and do something in Liberia I am sure the adminstration would be put down around the world for interfearing and if it doesn't then those kids holding up those sign asking for help will grow to despise what they think is the big americans that didn't think they were important enough to be bothered with....kinda like the little good news that has come out of the mideast in the last few days...if it goes bad then I am sure it will blamed on the US...if it actualy goes good then it will not be because of any actions done by the US...


()

I've always thought of Liberia as being sort of an American province though. I mean, it was set up as a state by the U. S. (ever wonder why the capital city's named Monrovia?) I feel like the U. S. going into Liberia is sort of like the French going into Ivory Coast. I guess I'm just acknowledging that the two are still colonies. I'm uncomfortable that I don't feel more uncomfortable with this.

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

Ghandi, I believe

A1062316 Congo Conflict Forum
If anyone is interested..

"Ghandi, I believe"

not "she"

"Americans largely have little awareness of what Liberians see as a lasting, special bond. "

Here's how the Liberian thing is playing in Canada:

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/030629/w062940.html

where as the Liberian gov't got turned over to them in 1848 or so and the Ivory Coast was still a republic of the french in the last half of this last centry...a bit of difference...


()

Trivia

Liberia has been our ally since the cold war, it was founded by US freed slaves 150 years ago.

if you would like my personal view on the matter...I would like for there to be a move made to help out the Liberian people...I would like to see the US offer a large part of that help...but I would like it to be in the form of the UN...now if the security council doesn't want to help out then we could always bypass them again I guess...but the help would be slowed down teribly because we have already got a couple of things on the burner so to speak


()

You guys are making a macrocosm out of a microcosm (my fancy way of saying "making a mountain out of a molehill") with the robbery incident. It would be wrong for the Iraqis to treat all the soldiers as armed robbers because one soldier stole money. It's exactly this sort of petty stereotyping that is the root of all the troubles in the Middle East.

The US should punish the soldier harshly, and let the Iraqis know that they're doing so. The better the two sides get along, the smoother the occupations will go, and the sooner the occupation can end. In this case, it is important that the Iraqi people feel assured that justice was served, and that this sort of invasion of their personal rights by US soldiers will not be tolerated.

As for the soldier, whether he was a good kid who messed up once or a career dirtbag doesn't enter into it. There are bigger things at stake in Iraq than one soldier. The boys know they are being held to a higher standard, and that they are ambassadors as well as soldiers. He knew the expectations, and he failed to meet them in extravagant fashion.

In the military, if nowhere else in this gods forsaken culture, one still faces the consequences for their actions... unless one is commissioned.

****

Now for that bit about Harry Potter, indifference, and neglect...

This is another example of the dualistic and unrealistic expectations the rest of the world has about the US. You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't get involved with the internal politics of foreign nations.

Well, here's the thing. The central principle of US government philosophy is self-determination. That means that we jealously guard our own politics from external forces... hence our uncooperative nature with some of the UN activities, like the Kyoto treaty and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

If we don't want to be ruled from outside, then what business do we have telling others how they should be ruled? It is downright un-American to get involved in the internal conflicts of other nations. That is why it took a perceived threat to US security (debate amongst yourselves however real or imagined that threat might be) to spur military intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq. Saddam Hussein came to power through successful revolution, just like our government did. Who are we to tell the Iraqis they should have a different dictator?

Let's also remember that George Washington, in his farewell address as he stepped down from his 2nd presidential term, advised against the dangers of becoming involved in the affairs of other nations. Staying out of foreign politics was established as a trait of this country from the very beginning. And when we've ignored Washington's advice, we've had Korea, Vietnam, and Bay of Pigs.

And yet, there have been times when, due to a perceived threat, the US has gotten involved. And whenever they do so, they are criticized in the worst way. But whenever they don't get involved, they are criticized in the worst way. Damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

The US hardly ever gets damned for don'ting, because it rarely ever doesn't. If the fools weren't in Iraq trying to plunder the oilfields, we wouldn't be discussing microcosms would we? The humantarian pretexts are just that, pretexts. Nothing more. How long is it going to take for you idiots to figure that out.

And they still haven't found the weapons of mass destruction.

Congress spent 80 million dollars proving Clinton had sex with women but ain't spending a dime to find out why America's in Iraq for phony reasons. Go figure.

"Staying out of foreign politics was established as a trait of this country from the very beginning."

That's a crock and you know it Mugwump or you should.

We can start with the invasions of Canada during the revolution and the War of 1812. Then we can proceed to all the attacks on indian nations not to mention the Mexicans. Then there's the Spanish American War and the ill-advised entry into WWI under false pretenses which inevitably led to the entry into WWII. In between interventions by the Marines in Guatemala, Nigaragua, etc. etc. etc.. From the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli and practically everywhere inbetween and you'll pay hell proving it was all defensive or even most of it.

Then there's been the suppression of the Philippine Insurrection, the overthrow of the government of Hawaii, almost too numerous to mention interventions during the so-called Cold War to prevent the spread of International Communism and on and on.

Maybe you believe the bilge about non-intervention but history doesn't back you up unfortunately. That's why Americans tend to be ignorant of history. It doesn't support their self-image as the do goodies of the world.

"An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, leaves the whole world eyeless and toothless" - someone. Maybe Gandhi.

Analiese: Apparently you missed the bit about "internal conflicts," or perhaps you don't understand the term. It means conflict between two or more groups within the same nation. There was nothing internal about those conflicts you've mentioned. Those were nation against nation... international conflicts, not intranational.

You really should try to figure out what the topic on hand is about before you start spouting off about crocks and bilges.