A Conversation for Ask h2g2

Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 21

Orcus

One thing that particularly amuses me here (if there is humour to be found in this god awful debate and referendum) it is that I post on several sites these days and this is not the first time I've seen the phrase 'swivel eyed loons' bandied about. Love it :D


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 22

Sho - gainfully employed again

(reply to Incog)

One way to look at it though is if you were old enough to vote in the first referendum, you're no spring chicken now (to put it bluntly). The vote is for young people's future: I firmly believe they are better in than out. Elderly people voting for out won't have to live with the long term consequenses.

(of course, I hope they do. Live a good long healthy life, but the young ones will have 40 or 50 more years of it)


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 23

Still Incognitas, Still Chairthingy, Still lurking, Still invisible, unnoticeable, missable, unseen, just haunting h2g2

Oh I firmly believe they are better in than out and will be voting accordingly.smiley - winkeye


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 24

Orcus

They had a debate on TV between young an not-so-young voters about the vote and the young made no bones about bluntly making that very point to the blue-rinse-brigade put in front of them.


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 25

Orcus

Sorry I should point out that this was in Brighton


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 26

paulh. Following butterflies through the meadows

The geico commercial was about squirrels in the attic, a pun on the word "nutters."

I am infamous for my puns. smiley - blush


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 27

bobstafford

This is a grim forecast for the leave scenario

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/one-chart-shows-main-economic-072521965.html?nhp=1

Stay in looks like the best bet by a long waysmiley - smiley


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 28

Todaymueller

Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Well if I am in any kind of quandery on anything I just read a copy of the Daily Mail and do/think/vote completely the opposite. Simple. The Daily Mail is an an unerring moral compass when used in such a fashion.


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 29

MMF - Keeper of Mustelids, with added P.M.A., is now in a relationship.

Incognitas

>>What we didn't realise was we were being signed up to an eventual federation of Europe because we were basically lied to by Heath.>>

I am uncertain as to whether we were lied to by Heath. I don't think so. I don't think what we have now was ever imagined, or even postulated. It was just a 'European Market', following on from EFTA. That the Common Market has grown into an inflated entity that is unmanageable is true and I think the US is suffering from this modern phenomenon too. It was thought the worst had happened when a film star became President, but now?

I was too young to vote on the Common Market referendum, but it made me realise referenda are not really a good way to decide what eventually will happen to the Country. There are a few who will research the subject, listen to the arguments and attempt to make an informed decision before voting, but most will probably opt for one soundbite headline, whether it being fishing rights, immigration, trade, workers' rights, free borders etc.

For me this is the naughties equivalent of the Cold War, without the missiles, but as dangerous. If we stay, we could stand to be subsumed into Europe and become what a state is in the U.S. with Federal law dictated from Europe, but state law set by the respective states (nations). If we leave we are an isolated Nation with little in the way of trade, but loads of technological advances, financial acumen and scientific knowhow, but is it enough to survive in a cutthroat global world.

Also leaving due to the belief it will reduce immigration will not 'stop them coming' or enable the Country to deport illegals any more than it does now. Immigration officials cannot cope with the number of illegals coming in now, most being processed in Croydon. They will still find a way to enter.

I, too, am uncertain, so I have set my default switch to remain.

Better the smiley - devil I know etc. etc. etc.

MMF

smiley - musicalnote


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 30

Sho - gainfully employed again

I'm not so sure that being part of a federalised superstate would be a bad thing. Germany works pretty well.


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 31

Otto Fisch ("Stop analysing Strava.... and cut your hedge")


I've got a lot of sympathy for people who have informed, detailed, technical objections to the EU and the way it operates. I share some of those objections and worries. I also agree that this has been a pretty shocking campaign from both sides as regards misuse of statistics.

But I don't accept that both sides are as bad as each other - Brexit's distortions have been bigger and more frequent, and I haven't see Remain pander to racism and xenophobia in the way that some elements in Brexit have. That's not to say that all Brexiteers are racists - there are a lot of decent people who just see things differently and with whom I respectfully disagree.

But although not all Brexiteers are racists, it seems that all racists are Brexiteers. And that's the problem.

Large sections of the Leave Campaign and their media allies have been completely irresponsible in turning a complex and multi-faceted issue into a faux-debate on false premises about "immigration" (which doesn't just mean 'immigration', of course, it also means UK citizens who aren't white). And stirring up fear and hatred.

So I think what I'm saying is that if you're tempted by Brexit for informed and non-racist reasons, then I understand, but with respect I have to say that Leave doesn't deserve to win. Even if you're right and I'm wrong about everything else, I'd still say we as a society can't *afford* them to win, such are the forces they've been meddling with and appear to have unleashed.

So what I'd say to anyone wavering is to think not only about the consequences of Brexit, but of Brexit under these circumstances, with those political leaders, with that particular toxic campaign - at best, the rabid right wing of the Tories, at worst UKIP. If I spell out what I think might happen next, perhaps you'll think I'm scaremongering, so I won't. Just imagine Cameron gone, a hard right government, what sections of the media will be like, who and what will be under threat next in terms of rights, freedoms, and institutions.

I'm not scaremongering, I'm scared. So, if you're one of those decent people minded to vote for Brexit, please hold your nose and vote Remain. And if I'm preaching to the converted, don't forget to vote.


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 32

bobstafford

smiley - applause


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 33

paulh. Following butterflies through the meadows

Europe has remained peaceful for a very long time now. The number of people who remember otherwise grows smaller with every passing year. The wife of a friend was born in France, and she often gives me an earful about the inanities of telling farmers they can't grow what they are, in fact, best at growing. Frankly, I'm sympathetic, but overall I don't see a better outcome for a region that had so many ugly conflicts for so many centuries.


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 34

Teasswill

Pondering the merits of weighted votes - those of younger people counting for more than older people, given that they will bear the consequences longer…..

Can't see that catching on somehow.


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 35

You can call me TC

My mother says she will definitely vote, she says it's not right not to. She's 96.


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 36

Teasswill

Min's determined to vote too, she's 93. But she's inclined to vote out - so is my brother. Apparently he thinks those who vote in 'need their heads examined'. I said that wasn't very civilised.


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 37

Mr. X ---> The path behind me is littered with corpses. .... .... .... Do you have a trash bag?

When does this vote occur?

smiley - pirate


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 38

Swl

What time can you get here?


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 39

Orcus

23rd June - not so long now thank smiley - bleep

Disgusted as I am with Remain's campaign - Otto has the right of it and it's a point well made. Leave's campaign is the more odious by far. But then a Remain supporter would say that I suppose.


Don't know how to decide how to vote in the Referendum?

Post 40

paulh. Following butterflies through the meadows

[Waits for the roof to fall in or not]


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