h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Oooookay, that was a bit too much OTD for me *bows*

I'm sorry, silly question, what does OTD stand for?

That's an interesting point: we've been talking about altered states of reality. Which are personal. But the question of 'explaining' them assumes we've got a shared idea of a 'normal' state of reality.

This is an international website with a lot of different points of view. So do we HAVE a shared sense of 'normal'?

Yes I don't know what OTD is either..but my post was a bit long and labarhynthine ; a lot of my 'thinking' is..and fragmented..and often changes.

But you picked out an interesting angle Dmitri

And as someone who often experiences *themselves* as 'WE', very relevant for me personally.

The sense of fragmentation of self causes me a lot of problems but can also be creative.

Someone sent me a cartoon cat yesterday.
With the caption:
"I are schizophrenic but at least I have each other."

~jwf~

Oof.

This is where I get prudish. I know it's only fun...but I *do* wish people would stop referring to schizophrenia as split personality and the like. It's a nasty disease and we at least owe the sufferers the courtesy of finding out the basics of what it actually is.

That's you tellt.

Yeah and all sorts of people can have that feeling of being different people and its a complex experience..not easy to put into words.

No more than 'voices' are confined to someone with the label 'schizophrenic' stuck on them.

But ~ jwf ~ *was* just being humourous but I take your point Ed.

Indeed. And I acknowledged that. I know he meant no harm. There was a smiley.

But I'm on a one-ape mission to increase awareness.

And its good you point it out. The voices of schizophrenics *can* be nasty and really vicious a lot of the time, and often tell them to kill themselves. At least some I've met, have told me that.

Oh and by the way it's animals as well as people..when manic the first time, I ended up being a starling.

Plus there's a lot more than voices...although I'll stop labouring the point.

Yeah, it's not the voices, at least, not for me. (I told them to shut up, they did.) It's being more or less constantly hypervigilant. My dad used to tell me, 'Stop trying to be responsible for everything.'

That and the range of experiences and perceptions that simply don't fit inside the shared norm is what makes it rough.

I can, however, have endless virtual conversations with the other people in my head. (They're all me, and none of them is homicidal in the slightest.) And yes, I know a hawk from a handsaw, at least when the wind's coming from the right direction.

That's interesting Dmitri. And I'd not really got to know you on h2g2 before..but here felt very comfortable and understood by you almost imediately. Hope that's not all in my head?

For me its about identity and always feeling not sure what I really think about things..it's fluid..so I supress one identity..and then it suddenly comes out..It's because I can see different points of view. I can see the contradiction in everything..So it's like a constant journey..but Nature is massively helpful for me.

When I first got manic I had all kinds of intense strange experiences some not pleasant but the closeness and connectedness to Nature was intense..Luckily the hospital was set in acres of land. When I could go out I would straight away make for the ancient trees and sit under them and feel connected. One day a big branch feel off an oak tree just as I was walking under it..of course that fed into things big time.

I know what you mean about hyper vigilant. Stuff comes in on me very strongly and its hard to make sense of it. But not quite like hyper vigilant. I've heard the medical term, 'over inclusion' used. Drugs help suppress that.

I'm very pleased you don't have homocidal people in you. So have you had that label put on you...it's just in real life I do have a problem communicating with schizophrenics. We seem on a very different wavelength. But I don't sense that with you. You make sense to me.

Thanks, Effers. That's nice to hear. (I try to make sense, maybe it works sometimes.)

What you said about nature helping - I think that's true for so many mental or mood disorders.

I can remember a time in my teens when I was feeling particularly stressed. There were reasons - I was out of my depth, with comparative strangers, on a 'retreat' that was overorganised and didn't give you any change to retreat. I fled the activities, into the nearby woods for an hour...

Where I stumbled across a little amphitheatre someone had made out of logs, in among tall trees. Okay, nobody there, so I could be silly. I sat down, sang 'I Know a Green Cathedral' - sappy, but the squirrels didn't seem to mind. Then, a miracle happened: an inchworm came down the log. I had never, ever, seen an inchworm before. I thought they were mythical.

So I sang the 'Inchworm' song to it.

So, yeah. Like that. And it helps, and that's all that counts. Who cares what someone else thinks about that particular altered state?

Jesus yes..that 'retreat' does sound like a nightmare...over organised..I'd have got really cross. Running to the woods sounds like a very sane thing to do.

Inch worm I thought they were just cartoon creatures I like it. Better than falling oak tree branches..it didn't hit though..just beside me. That tree was trying to tell me something..

**

Ed I just spoke to my Dad on the phone. They went to Coleridge's cottage in Devon earlier this week. You mentioned earlier on this thread you'd been and seen his opium scales. So I asked my Dad if they'd seen them..but apparently not..but there was a lot of info about his habits in that area..seems he partook of quite a few mind altering substances.

But man if it meant he could produce such poetry. He found a way to bring different parts of his brain together I suppose.

Aha. Carlos Castaneda would have called that falling branch an 'agreement'.

And hey, Coleridge visitors. Did they say 'Porlock' about a dozen times on the tour? As in, 'visitor from Porlock'?

My favourite Van Morrison song is 'Summertime in England':

...Wordsworth and Coleridge/ They were smokin' up in Grasmers...

I'm rather fond of 'The Preludes' myself.

That said...I'm unconvinced of that drug consumption unequivocally benefits artistic endeavour. Bob Marley (or, indeed, any Reggae great), yes. Miles Davis, yes - although it killed him. But there is also a lot of deadly dull art that is influenced by mind-altering substances.

Hendrix could only pay straight.

pLay straight.

Good point, there. Self-medication probably only works so far.

Oh of course you have to have the artistic skill. Poetry at its best, as I perceive it, is right up there for me. The music and the language and the emotion and the thought, brought together in a magical way.

That's what I meant about bringing parts together. The talent and the visionary to make something that can speak to community.

Drugs *can* help but you need the skill to ride the ride and transform matter, like a kind of alchemy..that's the genius.

Wowzer. Just read this a moment ago.

'...According to its admirers, Anglo-Saxon government originated in "moots", meetings - perhaps held under oak trees - where small communities thrashed out their differences.


I knew I was very Anglo Saxon. Sounds to me..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17822919