h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I have to say...I think anyone who thought it tittersome to wear a Nazi uniform knowing full well the offence it might cause is a complete idiot. I would not think well of them at all. A bit like the people at my workplace who blacked up and wore grass skirts as 'cannibals'. Whether they should lose their jobs is another matter.

(but the person who thought it appropriate to feature them in the company magazine which is handed out to customers really should have 'considered his position'.)

I think this issue is totally different to wearing a Nazi uniform as an actor. Prince Harry and Bruno Ganz were not going for the same effect.

Isn't a person at a fancy dress party just acting with a small, informal audience?<<<

I thought of that while writing the posting, but then I thought of the Spanish fascists, and I think that even if the joke were witty, still it would be a bit of killjoy. The reason is that wounds haven´t healed yet.

How dare he enjoy the company of a friend! And whilst harassing a waiter is a deplorable thing, it shouldn't be a sackable offence unless he was doing on company time, using company money and/or in company garb. We are all entitled to private lives and this conflation of the private and professional spheres should concern us all.

There are situations in the States where drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco (activities which are perfectly legal) even when off-duty can see someone fired. That is completely unreasonable and encroaching on our civil liberties.

also here are some reminders

wwII ended in 1945
my dad was in that war
my children's grandparents were adults during that war

it was only 66 years ago and there are many people still alive who were alive then
and many people alive who lost parents uncles brothers sisters children etc etc etc
in that war
at the hands of fascists and nazis and whoever

its just not funny

furthermore
neither would i find it funny to be around someone having a laugh
concerning the enslavement or genocide or other brutalities of indigenous peoples
(native americans, africans, indians, asians to name some)
no matter how long ago the atrocities occurred

its a bummer
and shameful
and humanity just has to get over it
stop doing it

or we will never become civilized
and then of course
when the galactic federation comes
they will deny us entry into their union

Sure. But can we still agree that his friend is a complete tw*t?

I've searched google France but couldn't find anything about the incident there. Makes me wonder what the role of Mr - what's his name? actually was. Was he the one wearing that uniform? No. Was he the one harassing the waiter? I don't know, but my impression was it wasn't him. So why should he lose his job over that? It was a stag party. I guess that means they all had too much alcohol. Who has never done a silly thing under the influence throw the first stone.

Would anyone leave a party where someone was dressed as a Nazi? I think I would.

I can see why people would think his friend is a tool, and why he is for laughing and for being a penis to the waiter and general public, but being a t*at shouldn't be a sackable offence.

We are free to pile opprobrium on him and his constituents are free to boot him at the next election, but he wasn't on the job and shouldn't be treated like he was.

fluffy, your argument is effectively "I'm offended": excuse while I fail to give a . You are entitled to your offence but no-one else needs to care. People, not even Tories, should lose their jobs because you're offended.

"there is not and never will be anything amusing or funny about the nazis"

This is so obviously, and demonstrably false that it almost goes without saying. Almost.

If you're the sort of person who can say, think, or agree with this statement, you've reached a degree of reality-ignoring po-faced humourlessness that disqualifies you (or should) from commenting on anything other people do. You've identified yourself as someone whose opinion can be and should be safely ignored as irrelevant, like the people who complained the Life of Brian wasn't funny. Idiots, basically.

We've reached a stage of history where every single person who was alive during the war at all is a pensioner. People old enough to have actually *fought* are into their eighties or more. There is therefore a generation in their thirties who not only don't remember the war - their *parents* don't remember the war. Sooner or later, the professionally brittle people who reliably manufacture media-friendly offence at this sort of trivia are going to have to get over themselves and let it go. Given what they're like, I predict this will not happen in my lifetime. I expect the rest of us will have to keep tiptoeing around their hair-trigger sensibilities for at least the rest of my life. But one day, I hope, someone will turn around to one of these people and say "Hang on...", and point out that what they're getting uppity about is a reference to something they didn't experience, their parents didn't experience, and nobody they've ever met or ever will experienced, and possibly they ought to shut up complaining about people making reference to it *when they (the complainant) are not even there*.



All that being said:

The man in question is a *politician*. Being involved, even peripherally, in such activity shows that he is a catastrophically bad one. He deserves to lose his (unpaid) job as PPS. Whether he'll lose his seat is a matter for his electorate.

HI read the first two urls in the original posting (number 1 in this thread)
it states that it is illegal to do what they did in france
against the law

and this guy had a job in government
i wouldnt be surprised if some of the others werent a part of the higher eschelons also

this group broke the law

hoovooloo?
i dont have to have been there in 1945 to not suffer even when i just think about it

but the more i learn about it
the stuff i read
peoples experiences
pictures

its horrific

and we must not forget
nor become insensitive

i believe you may have tried to insult me by insinuating i am an idiot?

why did you do that?

i am not being mean to you

i actually have liked you

Facts bear repeating:

- the "party" was twelve people in a restaurant (one I've eaten in, as it goes).
- half of them did, in fact, leave early. The MP did not, and indeed was apparently filmed paying for the meal. (Filmed by whom, I'm forced to wonder? Who goes to a ski resort and films *other people* paying their restaurant bill? Oh, of course - journalists.
- in France, bastion of Liberté, wearing an outfit like that is actually a criminal offence. I certainly didn't know that, and I'd be surprised if Oxford educated management accountant Fournier did. Ignorance is no defence, of course, and it's worth bearing in mind that France also makes it illegal for Muslims to wear masks, so they're *literally* the fashion police - surprised?
- it was a stag night, so it's reasonable to assume that the twelve people present were among the groom's closest friends. Frankly, if I was at a party with my closest friends, and someone *outside* the party was offended by something my friend said or did, my natural reaction would be to side with my friend against the passing random. I might very well later have a go at him for doing something out of order, but in the moment, and *especially* if it was his party, and *especially* if it was his stag party... what are friends FOR?

>>The man in question is a *politician*. Being involved, even peripherally, in such activity shows that he is a catastrophically bad one. He deserves to lose his (unpaid) job as PPS. Whether he'll lose his seat is a matter for his electorate.

A rare agreement with SoRB. Caesar's wife and all that...

FKF's point about illegality is a good one.

In several European countries, wearing Nazi uniforms in public is a very serious business.

why is it wrong for anyone, including journalists, to document the truth?

and you need to remember hoovooloo that this stag party was in a public place
with the public present
and people working
who had to be there

and this stag party
foisted its thang on everyone there
illegally

what are friends for?
they are for helping friends when they are put upon
and humanity is my friend

if i had been there i would have gotten in their faces
i would have

Nazis didn't disappear at the end of the war. There are many affiliated neo-Fascist groups today. They wear uniforms, swear allegiance to Hitler and perpetuate his warped hatred.

If you're going to dress in Nazi regalia for fun (and it takes all sorts, I guess), then the context needs to be very clear.

"i dont have to have been there in 1945 to not suffer even when i just think about it"

This is one of those things that falls, hard, into the category called "YOUR problem".

You are, apparently, seriously suggesting that anything that you choose to think about, and which you subsequently become upset about as a result of that choice, should somehow limit MY available choices and actions? Narcissistic, much?

By your "logic", I might say that I've sat at home and thought about the terrible suffering experienced by heretics in the inquisition, and therefore any and all displays of Catholic regalia offend me, and that anyone who wears or displays Catholic regalia should stop and be prosecuted and lose their job.

And I'd admit that I didn't suffer in the Inquisition and neither did anyone I know and neither did anyone still alive, but I've, y'know, THOUGHT ABOUT IT and it UPSET ME and that's really, really important and we shouldn't forget how evil the Catholics were and I should be protected by force of law from anyone ever saying anything Catholic-sounding and there's no way that any jokes should be made about it, by anyone, ever.

In your judgement this man's behaviour was insensitive. I refer you to Stephen Fry's comment on taking offence. "So you're offended? So...". Google the phrase to find out the rest.

And, of course, Ste[hen Fry's word is Scripture.

no hoovooloo

by your analogy

i would have to be offended by all germans

and i am not

only nazis