h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

just for the sake of it:

http://www.salon.com/topic/occupy_wall_street/

"Occupy is an attempt “to establish a socialist utopia through revolutionary anarchism” and that the movement must be met with legal and ideological opposition."

When the right-wing powerful media invest money in a campaing against Occupy, it means that they think that those people can be dangerous to their interests.
That gives me hope...

So now we know who they are and what they're doing.

I guess that "socialist utopia through revolutionary anarchism" must sound to most north americans like calling for the devil.

In Spain, during the dictatorship of Franco the magic words to tar anything as devil were these ones( now a humorous cliché):

Esto es una conspiración comunista judeo-masónica
This is a communist jew-mason conspiration...

Funny guy that Franco

Currently Bashir al-Assad is being laughed at for simultaneously blaming both America and al-Qaeeda for unrest in his country. Inconveniently, the US does have a track record in supporting al-Qaeeda - plus al-Qaeeda almost certainly are involved in the current uprising - as they were in Libya.

Tangled webs, tangled webs...

Re. Franco - entertaining book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Granny-Made-Anarchist-Stuart-Christie/dp/0743263561

What I meant was that the Marches civil rights leaders led and the trouble it caused for the establishment had nothing to do with any political party. I have been called a politician myself , although I have never held any government office. City and judicial offices in Lansing are non-partisan (although they do reflect political views).
So apparently I mis-spoke when I said Occupy Lansing was not political.
What I meant was it was separate from the elected official system here.
Our Mayor (who is political) has sat down with Occupy Lansing.
Leaders in Michigan state University have scheduled a lecture tonight with them.
I notice similar doings are going on in Chicago
http://www.suntimes.com/news/10034079-417/occupy-draws-on-mlks-legacy.html

that quote 'to establish a socialist utopia through revolutionary anarchism' sort of reminds me back in 1964 when I was a student someone asked me whether I preferred Communism to Capitalism ( I think they were trying to insult me by calling me communist).
I said then- neither I would go for the third option of a Limited Anarchy. He replied the problem with that is when you try to limit it it stops being anarchy; and if you don't limit it you have lawless hordes of people roaming the street with the strong preying on the weak.
I agreed that was not what I wanted. But then I asked under Capitalism don't you have the financially strong preying on the financially weak?
He didn't have an answer for that one.

>>the Marches civil rights leaders led and the trouble it caused for the establishment had nothing to do with any political party.

Apart from the CP-USA, the Socialist Party of America and the Social Democrats. And socialist organisers within various Labor unions including the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters.

End with a song (with an apt line):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5FCdx7Dn0o

Earlier there was some discussion comparing the Occupy movement to other protests such as those during the civil rights movement. Before his assassination, Martin Luther King Jr. was working on a Poor People's Campaign. After his death its organizers went to Washington D.C. and held a two week protest setting up an Occupy style camp called Resurrection City.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_People's_Campaign

I saw an MLK quote about it on the OccupyWS Facebook feed earlier.

When they start quoting Stokely Carmichael, I'll be *really* impressed.

the southern Christian leadership Conference (SCLC) was not an arm of the CP-USA, the Communist Party International, Nor the Social Democratic Party, Nor the Socialist Party of America, despite views to the contrary by James Earl Ray and certain white supremicists.
But as Abraham Lincoln once said
"If a man affirms , and swears, and reaffirms that 2+2=5 there is nothing under god's green earth that can convince him of his error."

>>the southern Christian leadership Conference (SCLC) was not an arm of the CP-USA,...etc.

I didn't mean to imply that it was and I'm sorry if I gave the impression of trying to capture it for the Commies. I'm not trying to make a case for Commies as the natural leaders of the revolution etc. etc.

But the CP-USA and other political organisations were extremely active in helping to establish the SCLC and subsequently in supporting it. I'm still trying to work out why you say the Civil Rights movement was apolitical when so many organisations were involved in it. Or even whether you think 'apolitical' is a good thing.

And I'm also puzzled by the apparent desire by some that Occupy remains apolitical. Why is this a good thing? Why not let those experienced in political organisation and political thinking take part? Why not capitalise on their experience?

>>> And I'm also puzzled by the apparent desire by some that Occupy remains apolitical. Why is this a good thing? Why not let those experienced in political organisation and political thinking take part? Why not capitalise on their experience?

I don't know, Ed. Maybe because everyone in Occupy can have whatever political affiliation they want, and some people outside of Occupy can't quite wrap their heads around that? To them it probably makes no sense that the group in which I'm involved has staunch Republicans working closely with Greens, Democrats and Independents.

Occupy is not apolitical. It's trying to be non-partisan, because it wants to be much more broadly inclusive than it would be if it were too partisan. I've also heard the argument made that too many of the mainstream politically active groups use overly hierarchical organisational structures. The fear is that this will undermine the kinds of processes many in Occupy are trying to use, and also lead to taking over with their own agenda.

I awoke this morning to the news that, an early ,Muhammad Ali, has reached 70 - an age that is fast approaching for me. Later, while in the bathroom, I could hear the strains of a familiar song, and realised that some of its lyrics might well apply to me.

The times they are a-changin' - Bob Dylan
http://www.goear.com/listen/b454475/the-times-they-are-a-changin-bob-dylan

Good luck with your quest.

About being apolitical or apartisan,

One of the characteristic of the Spanish movement was that they didn´t want any label to be identified as a political party. The reason was in one of the names of the movement: Democracia Real Ya. Real democracy now!
People were outraged, indignados, with the way ALL political parties were behaving. "The system has failed us" Politicians are corrupted and they have corrupted democracy.
The socialist party in power was applying the neoliberal recipes dictated from outside Spain. This wasn´t the best horizon for hope in any political party.

Desperation, outrage... sent many young people to streets, to occupy squares all around Spain, then people from other age groups joined. It was a truly civic movement. They had the support of restaurants, bakeries... everybody wanted to help those young people, the most educated generation Spain has ever had, and the generation with less job perspectives ahead.
One of the banners said: Im not against the system, the system is against me.

How not to feel outraged? during the time Spain economy was raising because of the construction or "brick boom" the country was presented as an example to follow (as well as Ireland) by the same ones that are telling us now what must be done with our economies.

One thing is clear, it must be citizens who lead this needed change, political parties will have to follow citizens proposals, is not that what democracy means?
Another story is that those proposals coincide with what some political parties defend (although do not apply when they are in power)

I've just posted this to another thread, but I think it might belong here:

John Farnham - You're The Voice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oawfn73Va6M

Also back in the sixties the Federal Bureau of Investigation(FBI) was always trying to link MLK to the commies, but they never succeeded.
So, anyway perhaps occupy is political( in a non-partisan way).

I'd suggest everyone take a look at this explanation of the two US bills coming up that are being protested by sites such as Reddit, Wikipedia, Boingboing, Google (with a special censor block over the Doodle for US users) and many others. SOPA/PROTECT IP are a threat far beyond the US borders as they are both targeted at foreign websites but will make onerous financial, legal and infrastructure requirements on all websites. What makes relevant to the Occupy movements is that these bills are great examples how large multinational companies run roughshod over the liberties of individuals and smaller businesses by financing politicians and lobbying efforts.

http://blog.reddit.com/2012/01/technical-examination-of-sopa-and.html