h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Ok, I'll do that.

Yes, please please read and comment on some of the Entries in Peer Review Tav

The more people that realise that it is a very positive experience the better. There does seem to be a wrong perception that PR is a bad place. I think this stems from many years ago, because I have never seen it that way at all. (note to self: I wonder whenever I may stop being regarded as a newcomer?)



As for layout, the old skins made it very difficult to find out how to comment. I like the new layout, [Barlesque] with a really large section on the homepage, showing exactly when the last posting to PR has been made. This would be a Very Good Thing to retain. The only discrepancy I would like to see improved is that the Entries now displayed on the actual Peer Review page in Barlesque are displayed in date of submission, rather than by date last posted. I would like to see this the other way around.

KBs point about scrolling down the PR page to find the Entries is valid too. I think this might mean that everyone just scrolls quickly down and doesn*t often bother to read all the wordy Guidelines for this that and the other. How to manage this? I will have to think about it, the answer is a difficult balance between getting important information about how to use, and take part in PR - and showcasing the Entries we wish to value and support through the process.

I bookmark the Entries in review page for quick reference:

Here in Barlesque:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/review_forum/A395589/conversations/F48874

and here in lovely Goo:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/RF1?entry=0&skip=0&show=75&order=lastposted&dir=0


I also find that the Entries look far nicer in Barlesque than in the older versions. So, given a wish list I would like to retain this sort of fresh, clean, easy to read text in noohootoo as I do sometimes have serious issues with eyesight

I'll try to think of a new layout for PR later.

What about that: on pages like ebay you can choose the order of the search results like 'price , lowest first' 'price, highest first', 'time, ending soonest' etc

We could have the same for PR, just with 'submission date' and 'latest comment'

We do! It's just really hard to find..

If you click on the 'Date entered' header it'll sort by date entered..

ooh! ta Z! I never knew that!

oooh We definitely have to make that a lot more obvious!

... and Barlesque doesn't have that

*tests*

Or indeed, on any of the headings. So you can have them alphabetised by name if you want, or anything.

Reverse u number gives you the newest researcher first

now that U number ordering _does_ bring up something interesting Z. That we get a fair number of new members who come here to write. So we really do need to make their experience of h2g2 a good one.

It does doesn't it? I always try to post on their personal space to say 'Hi' when I see someone who joined to write. (In fact I did that to Rich). But I worry the early experience of PR does put people off who want to contribute. At the moment I think the lack of a fast response does put people off, we can't do anything about that, but we need more people

And I know that way back when it was busy newbies who submitted something without staying around to lurk for a while first were seen as a pain, and of course they'd never read the writing guidelines. But really they are the potential lifeblood of the site..

I know what would be good, e mail updates on things you submitted to PR, because if you find a new website, submit some writing and then forget about it because you don't get instant feedback, it would be nice to get an e mail saying that 'someone commented on your PR thread'.

You could opt out of course, it could be a box that you tick when you submit for review.

I wonder if I was the last person left who knew that sorting trick.

PS: I do feel like an old timer now, but I felt like a newbie for the first 6 years..

I wonder if it would help or hinder to have a reveiw forum for newbies? Perhaps you could submit your first entry there, and only submit to PR proper once you've had an entry picked and published from the Intro forum?

I'm riffing here, and it may be a bad idea, but I can see that it would potentially remind commentators to give more support (if that's necessary) and remind them not to assume a newbie has read all the instructions. And nervous newbies may feel safer posting there first rather than in the big, scary space of PR.

It wouldn't just "train" writers in the ways of hootoo, it might also help train commentators, since the quality of comments would be under scrutiny too.

Also- here's a thought - would it help having someone "facilitate" PR - this could be a volunteer role in its own right, or it could change hands on a weekly basis. Again, I'm just riffing, but if there was someone who had the obgligation to do what Z's just described and spot new researchers and mentor them through PR, even if the mentoring was more a matter of lurking than actual posting.

Just a handful of cents at random....

Ben

Oh, and I felt like a newbie for my first five or six years too...

What about not a separate newbie review but a newbie icon at the Entry of newbies.

Yeah, me too. Still do now, sometimes, and I'm 9 now.

Perhaps *that's* something we need to do something about too. A couple of months, yeah. And maybe not an 'old hand' by the time you've been here a year, but this place is a bit bad for that. Nothing is ever mentioned, and it's not as though anyone doesn't take you seriously or anything like that.

Maybe it's because we have no milestones? You don't notice time that passes unless it has an event in it. So Rupert was an event, then nothing much until Single Sign On and BBCiD, then Barlesque, then they'll be post-BBC.

Perhaps is we have events and things that are site-wide, perhaps people will start to realise they've been here quite a bit, and there are plenty of new people who would appreciate your advice...

What we could do now..

When someone new posts to PR what about just making sure one of us goes to their PS's and asks if the need a hand, maybe posting in the ACE thread. I can do most of them... I'll try and also do the old researhers first time in PRers.

Is there a 'history of hootoo'? I mean a place where all these events are written down.

There was a project to do one for wasn't there?

100 new posts??? Crikey, see what happens when you post a comment and wander off for a while. Anyway, to get back to this site where I had to wait before uploading:

>>What was your reaction to joining a forum where you had to wait to upload stuff?<<

Actually, it made me look around the whole site, read the rules, read the extra rules for beginners, and generally find out a lot more about the site than I otherwise would. It certainly didn't make want to sod off elsewhere, the restriction was there to stop hit and run uploaders from ruining their quality reputation by posting tripe.

I was able to read the forums as much as I wanted and make replies. The sites main purpose wasn't the forums, they wanted to stop people just rushing in and uploading something unsuitable. Although they are very different in what they do compared with h2g2(who isn't?) I was struck by the similar desire to protect their quality of product on offer. It was the uploads they were protecting. I can download as much as I want with no restriction. Once the initial restriction is lifted I can suggest something for upload but only the power users are given unrestricted rights to upload without getting prior approval. Power users are chosen by the site operators and have usually been on site for about five years. I would post a link to it but if I even mention the name of them I suspect this reply will be yikesed, given how that sort of site is frowned on by the PTB. (No, it's not prawnography)

I'm not sure where you got the 'treating newbies as an annoyance' thing from. What I was suggesting was that every newbie be greeted in the 'one two one two' thread and encouraged to chat with whoever is hanging out there. Then free up their access once we had been able to tell them how to post stuff, find out what they wanted to get out of the site, advise them of special interest groups etc. It's all very well writing it in the rules but not everyone reads the manual before they switch on the TV.

At the moment, when someone arrives here they find they are in a cavernous complex with a tumbleweed drifting past unless they are lucky enough to get spotted by an Ace before they press a button to see what it does (and we all know what that leads to). What I'm suggesting is to let every newbie land in the same spot where anyone could subscribe to greet them (including Aces), in addition to the Aces welcome. I suggested a one day restriction but it could just as easily be an hour before we send them to miscellaneous chat to carry on their conversation. It's just a way to formalise the initial introduction to the site. I don't see how being friendly, welcoming them to h2g2 and saying 'ask us before you post it if you're unsure you're putting it in the right place' is treating them like an annoyance. Unless they are one...

These are all good thoughts. I like! I stopped writing on newbies personal spaces, if they had no ACE welcome because when I was a newish, I got a right royal hand-slapping for doing so.

Now, I do visit, if the writer seems to need a bit more encouragement to stick with the PR process. It can be a bit bleak waiting endlessly for your seemingly finished Entry to get picked. I think this is a point of departure for a lot of newcomers? If we were a bit more pro-active in the future we may find a whole lot more who stick around and keep contributing.