h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Kea:

<analogy) Even if a person is saying the world is flat when it is patently round? It is a bit difficult to see a persons point of view in these circumstances and unfortunately that is pretty much it when it comes to creationism vs evolution.
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Alfster, you've just done exactly the same thing - equating religion with creationism. >

No, I did not mention religion at all above. I presume you must have equated 'flat earth believer' with religious person? which is not what I wrote or meant. Flat Earth threory has little to do with religion - it comes from the observation of things falling off the edge of the horizon and coming to the conclusin that the world is flat.

I will refrain from turning this inot a C vs E thread.

a shame. completely understandable, but still a shame it came to this.
For those who think that this in some way means that HooToo will become totally fluffy, you are dreaming I'm afraid. Life isn't fluffy, and neither are most people. If it ain't one group falling out with each other, it's another.
In this particular case I think the community will end up losing more than it gains. But this, I think, is still not over; so we shall have to see how the pieces remaining on the board play out.

B

The italics have made it clear before that they do not ban people just for making a threat(the reason why a certain person was not banned etc a while ago) and that was all that Hoo did: make a threat.

The only way he could screw the pre-mod system was if he was put on it so it went straight to a ban instead.

It has been mentioned before that it would make more sense to post why people have been banned on the site rather than have Chinese whispers and assumptions (like in this post) flying about.

By actually naming and shaming and putting up the actual reason it would a) show that the transgression procedure is fair and honest and b) show people examples of behaviour that is not condoned and hopefully stop people behaving as such otherwise the only way you know you have transgressed is when you get put on pre-mod.

It would be like going into a room and being told that if you touched certain things you would get hit for it but not actually being told what you cannot touch - which seems ludicrous.

The transgression procedure is so shrouded in mystery and secrecy that no-one can be shamed out of pushing the limits etc because they can simply say they were hard done by etc.

*subscribes*

Yeah, Natalie, bless her, has a slightly ostrichy approach to the community here. What can't see her can't hurt her.

There have definitely been benefits of the hands-off approach that this generation of Italics have used, and on balance I think it works better than the very visible make-it-up-as-we-go-along approach of Mark'n'Peta.

However, there is a certain - ah - opacity to this sort of decision which probably does more harm than good. Justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done.

Regarding threats: Hoo has broken pre-mod before. If I was an italic and Hoo told me he would break it again, then I'd take it seriously.

Regarding death threats: I wasn't around at the time and was not able to judge whether this is just a stick that the dirty angels use to beat Adeleide up with again and again, or whether it was repeated, nasty and plausible. Distance is not a protection, of course - all sorts of dangerous things can be sent through the mail. This is something which chemical engineers would be more aware of than journalists and webmeisters which may be why Hoo and Alfster always took the threat more seriously than the Italics did. I do think that if the Italics had dealt with that one visibly and firmly at the time, then so much of the brahougha since could have been avoided.

Ben

I'm not surprised by this.

While Hoo is capable of making intelligent and witty posts I have seem some examples of 24 Carat trolling on his part as well.

I just posted my opinions on the DW thread but I wanted to say a few things that wouldn't be appropriate on there.
It's a shame Hoo has been suspended, he was exceptionally smart and funny, and when he didn't have a bee in his bonnet, he was generous as well. I don't believe 'he doesn't suffer fools gladly' in the few times we spoke directly he more than suffered me and I'm happy to say I am a fool a good amount of the time.
However, he chose this. He could have taken the pre-mod and not threated or tried to undermine the system. Even now he could choose to come back once his month is served, though that seems unlikely. His *choice*
I'll miss his input, especially from the Dr Who thread.

Whatever the eventual outcome of all this, there is a sliver lining here for me. Away with all these 'is h2g2 going down hill threads?'
There's still plenty of opinion and strident passion about round here methinks

"Mina, Hoo is a lot of things, but he isn't a troll. I *loathed* the way he would get an obsessive bee in his bonnet about specific researchers and attack them with logic-bombs, (JtP, Adeleide, etc, etc), but he wasn't a troll."

From the House Rules:- "Trolls say deliberately provocative things just to stir up trouble"

In my opinion that's what he's spent the last few years doing. However, I'm happy to disagree, but I truly believe that this place will be a happier place for a lot of people if they don't constantly get every single post they make picked apart by the same person all of the time.

Whatever his intentions (which obviously I can't possibly know) it just looks like the work of a troll and a bully.

I should add that it doesn't matter who is wrong or right in a debate, or what someone's beliefs are - they don't deserve to be treated in that way.

Well, I agree with you about the bullying, Mina.

B

It's probably a better word, troll just seemed easiest to use in an online environment.

I'm sorry I'm pleased about it in a way, I know he was/is your friend.

My perception of Hoo is that he is a passionate, erudite intellectual, who would challenge illogical or poorly reasoned statements. Although I considered some of his posts to be a little too 'hot', I am sad if he has chosen to leave permanently.

I can now see why the italics have reacted as they did, but I think the timing is bad & the punishment excessive, when we are still left with some researchers trolling unfettered.

Is.

I dislike it when people I like fall out, (eg you and Hoo). But on the other hand, I'm no - I do have to stop myself from being spitefully cheerful when s**t happens to people I don't like.

Ach, it's only a website, after all.

Have a good weekend, Mina!

Ben

*simulpost* with Teaswill, obviously.

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That may partly be down to the other researchers not jumping up and down in front of the mods shout "Hey! Look at me!"

>>the punishment excessive<<
Sorry, but I disagree with this. It seems that Hoo would have gotten the same punishment as Apple had he not threatened the Italics. I think the pre-mod was justified, the further measure was Hoo's own doing

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It was none of the above! It was a case of my typing what an angry and crying child said in the heat of the moment. Neither of us is at all emotionally capable (or in my case physically) of hitting anyone, much less killing them, especially a man Blicky's size!

Hoo and Alfster have deliberately made a meal of it for over a year, yet they know no one was ever in any real danger! From a 155 cm woman and a child, give me a break! As for distance being no protection, once again, give me a break! What did they expect - anthrax letters? We didn't even know Blicky's real name or even approximate location!

agress with Teaswill, mostly. Excessive in the general scheme of things, yes. But not for the specific instance.
Of course, the most disappointing thing is that this point should never have been reached.

Was Hoo threatened (or informed) directly that he was going to be put on premod, or was the threat to break the system (not an idle one) pre-emptive?

I for one will be very sorry if he doesn't come back - he has wit and intelligence in unusual measure, and though he could be brutal (sometimes too brutal) with a particular style of arrogant ignorance, he was always ready to try and explain things to those who were *only* ignorant but expressed a desire to learn.

Noggin