h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Being adopted, I've always had a vague horror of meeting a brother I didn't know I'd got....

Never mind asking for proof of divorce - I was more interested in seeing their birth certificates!

I think conditioning means more for humans that most would like to admit. As a human I don´t think you have any real knowledge of the genetics of your siblings, it is more to do with growing up with them. You´ll then see them as being part of the family wether they are adopted or genetic. Possibly if there is a big age gap between the children, this might make a difference. I was reading a book, possibly The Third Chimpanzee by Steve Jones, who talked about kids in israeli kibbutzes. Kids who grew up together in these collectives were apparently quite unlikely to date or marry each other.

Also, you can recognise your siblings by scent. Really. If not consciously.

I don´t think that´s really been proven yet.

I don't get on all that well with my brother & certainly never felt physically attracted to him. However, the topic doesn't give me the factor that others seem to have.

Given that we do often have quite a physical similarity (even if not immediately obvious) to our chosen partners, it doesn't surprise me that some people can find siblings attractive. On the other hand, I believe we also look for someone with a 'complementary' scent, to ensure strongest genetic pool; that probably wouldn't match with siblings.

One's own parents? Perhaps a fleeting sense - perhaps depends which parent one most resembles?

I suspect age is also a factor - when young, with the sexual urge is at its peak, one is likely to be less fussy!

No.

However, one of my brothers made it clear when we were growing up that he 'would if I wasn't his sister'. So perhaps the answer is 'yes' from him.

I don't think any of my brothers are attractive, but obviously some girls do, cos they go out when them, and in one case, actually married one!

<>

Absolutely not! I find the idea as repellent as I find the idea of a sexual encounter with my parents.

I had two sisters and two brothers. Only one of my brothers lived to adulthood, and although he and I were very close, it was not in any way sexual, and the very idea is utterly repulsive.

Vicky

Nadgers - I just spent ages writing a reply and hootoo went a bit

I agree with people that it's a pretty odd question but it's also pretty interesting, especially in the light of all the Austria stuff.

A lot of people are talking about genetics, and that's fair enough, but what if you changed the parameters a bit? What if it was a brother/brother or a sister/sister relationship, or even a mother/daughter or dad/son one? There's clearly no issue of miscegenation, so would it still elicit disgust?

For myself, I've never been the slightest bit attracted to either of my brothers, but that's because I hate them. If I try to think about I just get an overwhelming "eww, they're scum" reaction and incest doesn't really get a look in. Same goes for my dad.

I will admit to a couple of things though: an ex of mine, in hindsight, looks quite a bit like my younger brother and I always thought he was quite handsome. However my attraction to him was all about his personality, not his looks, and he's the polar opposite of my brother in that respect.

The same younger brother once came on to me - he was about 16 and I think he'd been drinking heavily - and my reaction was to put him through my bedroom door (I didn't mean to, I just wanted him out of the room *immediately* and I forgot the door was in the way) and we've never talked about it since.

My final confession is that I used to have (and I guess if I'm honest, still have to some degree) quite a big crush on a guy who's basically my adopted dad. When my family fell apart when I was a teenager, he was a teacher who kept an eye on me and helped me out. It's now just become generally understood that him, his missus and their kid are the closest thing to a "proper" family that I have.

This crush makes me a bit uncomfortable, but I can't explain why. I understand the psychology behind it and I know that it's not sick or bad or evil, but it's still a bit wierd to have a crush on someone who I'm so emotionally close to. Don't think that's an incest thing though.

I guess I just don't have the instinctive "Incest? Yuck!" reflex most people seem to have and that's probably got something to do with the fact my family is so messed up.

Iago

I once read or saw on TV somewhere that incest was perfectly normal in society in ancient times. I think it was the Romans or maybe the ancient Greeks who made it the taboo it remains today. I think it was perfectly normal in Ancient Egypt for example.

My memory may be hazy on the details but we're certainly not hard-wired against it.

My mate went out with his 1st cousin for a while a few years back.

And my answer is also no BTW.

Well the egyptian pharaos were known to marry their siblings to keep things pure. Also in some religions marriage between cousins is considered a good idea, with the toothless, banjo playing results that entails.

My mother's half-brother married my mother's half-sister. One is her mother's son, the other her father's daughter - they're both related to her, but not to each other, and met for the first time when they were nearly adult.

The result is that I now have two double half-cousins

A friend of mine from years ago married her cousin. She was only allowed a very sheltered life and so didn't meet anyone.

She desperately wanted to get married in church, and the vicar agreed as long as one of them had the op so they couldn't have kids. I often wonder if she was happy with him, or if she was finally allowed to live her own life and moved on.

>>......mother/daughter or dad/son one? There's clearly no issue of miscegenation, so would it still elicit disgust?<<

For me, personally,yes.

And I speak from bitter experience; I was sexually abused by my (adoptive)mother when I was a small child. The fact that she was warped enough to act out her fantasies,let alone even consider a small child sexually interesting makes me heave to this day.

I blanked it out of my mind until I was 30 years old. I am 50 now; and I'm finally getting some serious councelling for it.

I very much appreciated the *honesty* of your reply HI.

I also hated my brother. Some weird 'children' stuff happened when we were younger. Nothing serious I hasten to add...Just children's healthy natural curiosity about sexual difference.

I have my own theories about a lot of this stuff. Sigmund Freud, who I have a lot of time for, and have read extensively, speaks about how incestuous feelings are repressed into the 'Unconscious'. So naturally we aren't conscious of them.

A funny thing happened though when I once bumped into him on the South Bank, outside the NFT. I was with my partner; she had never met him. Like now, I hardly ever see him. we still don't get on. She said afterwards she thought he must be a former boyfriend because of the way we were with each other. That seriously freaked me out.

Interesting thread, Roy.

Really, I've always wondered why people have this thing about cousins! (Maybe it's because mine were all on the other side of the world, and I didn't actually grow up with them... But I don't consider the cousin relationship close enough to count as incest...

My brother's ex-girlfriend was the product of a marriage between first cousins, and she was a perfectly sane, healthy reasonable woman.

Cousin marriage has never been illegal here.

Vicky

Problems occur as a result of inbreeding for generations, not just a 'one off' close match, because it's only as the gene pool gets smaller that problems start to arise.

I don't know much about people genes, but I know a fair bit (for a layman) about closed gene pools because of dog breeding.

Yes, as the gene pool gets smaller, the lethal recessive genes come more and more to the fore, as they are not countered by the dominants, when fertilisation occurs between the sperm and egg, and the diploid gene state occurs.

Hence hybrid vigour occurring in larger gene pools.

> between first cousins, and she was a perfectly sane, healthy reasonable woman.<

Ah if only my parents had been first cousins...

Regarding cousins, I think it depends how close together you were brought up, and maybe even how similar you look. My cousin and I were often mistaken for twins as kids (still happens occasionally) he's only six days old than me, and through some weird quirk of genetics we look very similar. In fact last year when I buzzed my hair short on top I was ordered to grow it back purely because "You look even more like twins now, stop it, it's scary".

I can't for one second imagine being attracted to him, even though on an objective level I can see he's quite a handsome, tall, muscular chap.

Evadne,

Forgive me here, obviously what you suffered through was terrible to an extent most of us wouldn't be able to imagine, but I have to ask isn't that a case of severe sexual abuse and peadophilia, more than it's incest?

What about a relationship between two consenting adults, that is entirely non-abusive, who are father and son or mother and daughter? Or, given the emotions involved, is such a relationship even possible?

This conversation made me think quite a lot last night, mainly because I seemed to be the first person, after (I'm guessing an inebriated) Roy not to have a "Yuck!" reaction.

I think that I just struggle to get past the idea of why it should be wrong - if there's no harm involved and so inbreeding and child abuse are ruled out - why is it considered immoral?