h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"Abortion row fears over eye cure"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3959783.stm

"US scientists have successfully restored a woman's vision using eye cells taken from aborted foetuses."


Two points come to mind.

1) If the 'donor' is anonymous then there is no moral issue regarding couples becoming pregnant and then aborting the foetus simply to treat another person.

2) The University of Louisville (Kentucky) is making a public statement about a possible row, that they might be seen as 'promoting abortion'. I wonder why they would do that - it almost seems like they are trying to stir up an issue.


So, is there a moral issue about using foetal stem cells for medical treatments?


azahar

Can't see a moral problem with it so long as the 'donars ' remain annonamus, I can't see that'd 'encourage' people to abort foetus's, just wish they'd hurry up with the eye treatments and extend it to sucessfully treating those of us who'v e got screwed up optic nerves

I don't see how making the dead baby somehow useful is going to make anyone comfortable with killing it.









After all, there are those who are already willing to kill the mother and the baby rather than let an abortion go ahead. Indeed, there are those who are willing to kill the mother, the baby, any future babies that woman might have, as well as condemning any individuals that might have had their lives saved by the woman in her never-to-be-lived future life.

Saving someone's vision with aborted foetal tissue is not going to change these peoples' violent opinions. In fact, I suspect their opinions will be enflamed by this as though someone had started a food-aid programme involving protein derived from aborted foetuses.

The two "sides" in the argument are not even discussing the same subject. One side is interested in life, liberty, and the minimization of agony and torture for as many as possible. The other side is interested in power, control, oppression and the death of world. The dark side has forced a huge proportion of the other side to defend their own anti-abortion sentiments. How many times have we heard "I'm against abortion but I'm pro-choice"?

The dark side can't accept that wisdom.

No one is involved in killing babies.
These are foetus's, quite distinct things.

IMO that's just the point 2Legs. It is a foetus! Unfortunately there are a number of people who think that once the egg is fertilised a baby has been given life.

my head ain't switched on properly today, I must have only skimme read what you wrote As I said earlier I'm personally all for stem cell therapies being developed, though I do have a hidden or perhaps not so hidden interest ; I'm still waiting for them to get teh stem cell treatment so I can have a new set of optic nerves

It sounds as though the foetus has to be at a certain stage, to be able to extract the specific cells required. If that is so, then this is unlikely to be more than a stepping stone in research, because there just aren't going to be enough foetuses (or suitable cadavers as the other option mentioned) to treat everyone.

Does the mother have to give consent for the foetus to be used?

I'm all for it. I can imagine the day when either material can be extracted from the patient to grow new, healthy cells, or stem cell material stored at birth, ready for use if required at a later date.

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I was wondering about that too, Teasswill.


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Well, that is pretty much my stance, slapjack - that I am against abortion for myself but I do agree with women having a safe medical option.


az

saying a foetus isn't a life..a baby..is splitting hairs..yes it is life..but that is not the issue. I'm very anti abortion, unless for certain grounds, such as medical or rape..and would agree even less with a babty being concived n then aborted purely for medical research. However.. f they can make use of living babies umbicical cords/placentas(the cells from those) in the future, or even use cells from babies unfortunsately miscarried or who die before birth then let them do it, that would be great!

Putting aside whether or not you agree with abortion, it happens & there are unwanted foetuses. Isn't it then similar to any deceased person donating organs, except the foetus isn't capable of choosing.

As the mother is essentially wishing to dispose of the foetus, should she indeed have any right to say what happens to it?

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Exactly! We're supposed to love people and use things, not love things and use people, even unborn ones...
Then, I read down and see the rest of your posting,slapjack. You're pro-abortion!

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How many abortions are performed to actually save the woman's life? A minute fraction, I won't give any figures, as certain people will get hung up on that, and screech about statistics til the cows come home.
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The dark side? What does *that* mean?
Wisdom? That slogan isn't wisdom, it seems like hypocrisy to me - when I hear someone say "I'm against abortion but I'm pro-choice" what I hear is either "I'm trying to have a bob each way" or "I'm not against abortion at all, I just want to confuse the issue."

I am pro-life. Which means I am both for a woman's right to choose, and in favor of fetal stem cell research/ treatment.

I think it much more important to concern myself with an existing life than a potential one. Period.

"Then, I read down and see the rest of your posting,slapjack. You're pro-abortion! "

No I am not, you insulting git!

How many times have we heard "I'm against abortion but I'm pro-choice"?

The dark side can't accept that wisdom.

"That slogan isn't wisdom, it seems like hypocrisy to me"

See what I mean?



An apology would be appreciated for the slur you threw my way.

Slapjack, I've found that Adelaide can be very engaging until one expresses any semblance of an understanding of just what the value of human life means. bring up "abortion", and it's all over.

I doubt she'll apologize. It's easier just not to bother. But then again, maybe you're not the sort (like me) to resign one's self to the Easy route.

I've enjoyed thoroughly reading your postings on this subject. I fail to see why stem cell research is a "moral" issue at all. One would think saving lives was the moral thing to do. But what do I know? I have a biased opinion. Fetal stem cells could cure my medical condition and stop it getting worse. I'd produce my own fetus to do it, if I could. And my partner would gladly help, I know. That the gods for reason and common sense. Let's hope it prevails over dogma and superstition.

I guess I hit the nail on the head:

"The dark side has forced a huge proportion of the other side to defend their own anti-abortion sentiments. How many times have we heard "I'm against abortion but I'm pro-choice"? "

And then the new term "pro-abortion" gets slapped in my face.

Well. I guess we know who on this thread is, by her own admission, "anti-life".

Adelaide: here comes my defense, derived from wisdom that has, as is inevitable, come with much grief, and based on knowledge, which likewise must come with great sorrow.

I am passionately, but not viciously, anti-abortion. But I am also passionately pro-choice. And I could be induced to be vicious about the right an individual has to freedom of conscience. If I meet opposition to freedom of conscience, I am happy to describe that as the dark side.

I've met the dark side here today, it seems.

<,No I am not, you insulting git!>>
No I am not would have been sufficient, without the insult...
I am sorry for the slur, if you are not pro-abortion...

Psychocandy, you said
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I just did!
Opposing abortion is not just "dogma and superstition" and foetuses are not the only source of stem cells! Did you even know that?
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It's possible you might feel differently, if you actually did get pregnant - on the other hand maybe not... but have you actually asked your boyfriend what he thinks? Maybe he wouldn't be that made up about it...

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I suppose you mean me, but what the heck is that remark supposed to mean? I am anti-war and anti-death penalty as well, did you realise that? Therefore, the term is pro-life.
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Freedom of conscience? One's freedom of conscience ends where other peoples' right to life begins. Your defence? Very undetailed...

>It's possible you might feel differently, if you actually did get pregnant - on the other hand maybe not... but have you actually asked your boyfriend what he thinks? Maybe he wouldn't be that made up about it... <

I have been pregnant. By CHOICE. And I have talked to my boyfriend about it, and he agrees that it would be a worthwhile decision. He's seen me in pain, has spent countless hours trying to help alleviate it. And values my life above any potential life we might be able to create together, first and foremost.

"I am sorry for the slur, if you are not pro-abortion..."

Thanks for the apology, but why the conditional?


"Pro-abortion." Who the hell is pro-abortion?

"I'd like to speak to you tonight about the glories of abortion. That's right, we at the Pro-Abortion movement want to make sure that every woman experiences the joys of abortion as often as possible. In fact, in collaboration with our French collegues, we're planning to begin implanting foetuses into appropriate places in male volunteers (likely the thigh) so that our brothers can experience the joy of terminating a baby!"
"Pro-Abortion" has got to be one of the most asenine, reactionary, meaningless propoganda slurs ever coined by the intellectually bankrupt marketeers of the totalitarian right (although "uncircumcised ear" ranks up there as well)

Adelaide: The people you refer to as "pro-abortion" are every bit as "pro-life" as you are. The real difference is between "pro-choice" and "anti-choice", between "it's not my business; it's the woman's" and "it is my business and it's not the woman's".

I'm not pro-abortion. I'm not pro-choice. I am pro-life and I am most definitely "it's not my business; it's the woman's".

Ask yourself what you are.