A Conversation for Ask h2g2

Language and Linguistics

Post 821

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

Hello, Anaximenes...
<>

In one respect, yes, that of my nickname here.


<>

Oh yes, I have definitely experienced those agonies, especially in communicating some concepts, or with some people (18 year old son most recently).

So, I see your point.


Language and Linguistics

Post 822

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

>> ..striking a resonant chord in contemporary secular society, and its mask of irony slipping to show a two faced expression of the need for transcendent meaning, an anxiety about the arbitrariness pervading our sense of reason and a tragi-comic acceptance of ordinariness. <<

Thanks.
I've been waiting for five years for someone to actually speak to the question.
smiley - ta
Let's hope the film version of HHGG will inspire more readers. Film, at least most current popular films, are mostly a 'pervasion of our sense of reason' that only creates more 'tragi-comic acceptance of ordinariness.'
We must hope the HHGG movie is more inspirational and that DNA's message of hopeful hopelessness is not lost in the special effects.
smiley - peacedove
~jwf~


Language and Linguistics

Post 823

MoFoLo

Oh, but if I said I was going to stay right here, then am I going or staying?

And what is the origin of The Danish language and the other surrounding countries. Looking at a Danish article I notice similarities to English and German. And yet when I say, "On the street where you live" the English say street, the Danish say gade or a variation of that word, and the Germans say stra&#946;enbahn.

Another thought - What is meant when it is said, "God help those who help themselves." I always thought that meant those who do for themselves do so with the help of God. But when I helped myself to a second helping of pie. Never mind I just now figured it out. The second fraze is, "God help those who helped themselves." Yes, there is a decided difference which is more noticable when put in print.

And unfortunately I never studied English and have little idea (or none whatsoever) of transitive, intransitive, sin tax, or ending on a preposition. And English is my native language of sort. I just don't use as many "U"'s. When I say colour I write it as color. I also throw in Cap letters, especially when writing pen to paper, sometimes with wild abandon.

I do have favorite words. They be: penultimate, sisyphean, and indefatigable. My bride's word is Tulmultuous.

Of course I never use "big" words, or words over 25¢, unless I am alone or with somebody. I figure 50 cent words are a dime a dozen.

But I will skim over gently the past to get to the present. and Should I find something that explains what this site is about I will either note it well or more than likely print it out. Embarrassed to say I sometimes forget that is if almost always can be considered sometimes.

As some of you are already tomorrow then I will carefully diseminate your discussions of today as practical as one might expect on the first day of the month after March.


Language and Linguistics

Post 824

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

<>

I always took it to mean, that one must expect to have to do something for oneself, before God could be expected to step in and assist...

But about the biscuits, my father was being funny (though there was nothing funny about a telling off from him, I can assure you! smiley - wah)

smiley - smiley


Language and Linguistics

Post 825

MoFoLo

Isn't that hilarious? I 2 was thinking the same thing. Thank you for the heads up. and with 824 plus entries I cn see that my weekend does have some work cut out for itself. Along with cleaning up the backyard, paying some bills, and other stress related disorders. But for now I procrastinate if for no other reason than it works best for me when I have the time but do not wish to use it. So, if it is okay i will be back or I shall return.

Biscuits? Bis - twice + coquere

Hey they are. Thanks again.

From one who never had a father that's okay too.smiley - ok


Language and Linguistics

Post 826

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

>> My bride's word is Tulmultuous. <<

I do not doubt you for a moment.
smiley - winkeye
And I think an 's' should be added to 'help'.

"God helps those who help help themselves."
It's the so called Protestant Work Ethic. It means that The Lord hath promised (by past demonstration) to assist those who are prepared to work to provide for themselves.

It began as a Truism, became a code of life for a couple of centuries and has now fallen into being completely misunderstood and misspelled. The Lord works in wisterious weighs. I mean the word lurks in.. ah never mind.
smiley - cheers
~jwf~


Language and Linguistics

Post 827

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

Biscuits = cookies, I believe. (Whereas biscuits to an American, are what we would call scones, is that right? Bready type things made with butter, flour, baking powder?

Maybe ~jwf~ can confirm...


Language and Linguistics

Post 828

Edward the Bonobo - Gone.

Stepping slightly sideways in the language/god debate...

...hold on a goshdarned minute: Let's remember where languiage comes from. It's a product of brain function. And what does it do? It expresses ideas.

So...I think we have to distinguish very, very carefully between language and ideas. With the former, we have a finite (if extensible) vocabulary and framework which we can use to express an infinite (?) range of ideas. My guess is that the po-moists (and other philosophical schools. Hi, Ludwig W!) are really working in the world of ideas and how they relate to one another. We need to go back to Ferdinand de Saussure and language as 'arbitrary signifiers'.

Then, of course, there's the subtle issue of how ideas get into our heads (partly by language, but also as the result of other non-linguistic experience: the perception of 'signs', how they are interpreted (in relation to other ideas, in the light of cultural experience, etc. etc.) and how they are stored (which profoundly and definitely has nothing to do with language).

In short, I think that we have to think about language and brain function in the light of science. Ideas, though, are a separate domain and are up for grabs by any passing philosopher.

I'm not sure if I'm going anwhere with these randomesque thoughts. Still, on balance of odds, I must me making at least as mich sense as Jackie Derrida.


Language and Linguistics

Post 829

liekki

a complete :

As you all know, people's way of speaking tends to depend on their social class. For example, in English English lower classes don't have h's while the upper ones do.

In India people are divided into castes. Membership is hereditary and I gather there is relatively little communication between the lower and upper ones. So much so that people from different castes in the same city speak more differently than people from sames castes in different cities.

Kannarese is a Dravida language (like for example Tamil) spoken in Southern India. Here are some differences between the language of the highest caste and the other castes in the same city.

(the ortography is simplified)

'it is'
highest: ada
not highest: ayti

infinitive affix
highest: -likke
nh: -ak

'inside'
highest: -olage
nh: -aga



Language and Linguistics

Post 830

Edward the Bonobo - Gone.

Ditto Japanese.

When Hirohito made his surrender speech, it was the first time he had made a radio broadcast (or, indeed, spoken in public at all). He used Imperial forms which made him practically incomprehensible to all but his courtiers.


Language and Linguistics

Post 831

liekki

Oh, that's so cool. smiley - bigeyes


In the Aboriginals' languages there is a special mother-in-law register of speaking. Mother-in-laws and certain other women are taboo (to men I guess), so men speak to them in a variety that is similar to the rest of the language in all ways except the vocabulary, which is *completely* different. For example, in a dialect of Dyirbal, the everyday word for 'sun' is 'gari' and the mother-in-law word 'bungan'.




Language and Linguistics

Post 832

MoFoLo

So what you are between a rock and a hard place. You still have the option of walking away.


Language and Linguistics

Post 833

Recumbentman

Whoo what a bocklog; three weeks is a long time in hootoo! Anaximenes has appeared out of nowhere and become an old hand, all in one sitting (of mine. A few hours).

About the tilde ~

I suspect it was originally used to convert a single n into a double n. Medieval Latin used lots of these contractions when parchment was scarce.

Thus Cannon was written Cañon and pronouced Canyon in Spanish, and one particular usage of that word took on the spelling Canyon in English. Wonderful tales, contained in small words.

Nice to hear from a fan of Derrida. He was given several favourable obits when he died, and his wisdom is better-founded than some (read "Not Saussure"?)

The idea of "language speaking us" is a deliberate over-the-top-go for the purpose of making a point (as I read it) (or as it reads me?). The mystery is so close to hand we can hardly ever see it; but Proust put it well by saying that *all* the characters in his book are fictitious, including the reader and the writer.

Communication depends on the mutual performance of an act of faith: we accept the necessary fiction that we share language -- it exists not so much *in* as *between* us -- and that we intend, and are able, to understand and agree with each other.


Language and Linguistics

Post 834

MoFoLo

Waltzing Ma~a
Waltzing Ma~a
Won't you come waltzing Ma~a with me...


Language and Linguistics

Post 835

MoFoLo

Originally it was a sqiggle(not squiggle)

The tilde (sqiggle) was the select operator in INTERCAL

The select operator takes from the first operand whichever bits correspond to 1’s in the second operand, and packs these bits to the right in the result. Both operands are automatically padded on the left with zeros to 32 bits before the selection takes place, so the variable types are unrestricted. The resulting value will have the same type as the second operand. For example, #179~#201 (binary value 10110011~11001001) selects from the first argument the 8th, 7th, 4th, and 1st from last bits, namely, 1001, which = 9. But #201~#179 selects from binary 11001001 the 8th, 6th, 5th, 2nd, and 1st from last bits, giving 10001 = 17. #179~#179 has the value 31, while #201~#201 has the value 15.


Language and Linguistics

Post 836

MoFoLo

o0Ops no a required as ~ is pronounced til-duh or can be pronouced as til-day never having heard the word or looked it up I always pronounced it Tilled. Who new>

Waltzing Ma~
Waltzing Ma~
Won't you come waltzing Ma~ with me...


Language and Linguistics

Post 837

MoFoLo

Translation please. Donut no what lanjaje.


Tildes Jumis 2005 Marta izlaidums

Ir izn&#257;kusi šogad pirm&#257; sist&#275;mas Tildes Jumis jaun&#257; versija - sist&#275;mas Tildes Jumis 2005 Marta izlaidums. B&#363;tisk&#257;kie jaunumi sist&#275;mas Tildes Jumis 2005 Marta izlaidum&#257; - nor&#275;&#311;inu savstarp&#275;j&#257;s sal&#299;dzin&#257;šanas akts, pamatl&#299;dzek&#316;u inventariz&#257;cijas akts, izmain&#299;ta PVN deklar&#257;cijas kokmateri&#257;lu pielikuma 1. da&#316;a, PVN deklar&#257;cijas pielikumu eksports uz VID elektronisko form&#257;tu (*.duf).

S&#299;k&#257;ku inform&#257;ciju par Marta izlaidumu lasiet šeit.

Licenc&#275;šana

Tuvojoties gada p&#257;rskatu iesniegšanai, daudzi sist&#275;mas lietot&#257;ji izr&#257;d&#257;s p&#257;rsteigti, jo revidenti l&#363;dz uzr&#257;d&#299;t izmantot&#257;s gr&#257;matved&#299;bas sist&#275;mas licences. L&#363;dzu, &#326;emiet v&#275;r&#257;, ka licences l&#299;gums ir iek&#316;auts sist&#275;mas Tildes Jumis 2004 vai Jaunin&#257;juma uz sist&#275;mu Tildes Jumis 2004 kast&#299;t&#275;. Šis licences l&#299;gums dod ties&#299;bas str&#257;d&#257;t ar sist&#275;mu Tildes Jumis vien&#257; dator&#257;. Ja uz&#326;&#275;mum&#257; sist&#275;ma tiek izmantota vair&#257;kos datoros, katrai papildu darba vietai j&#257;ieg&#257;d&#257;jas papildu darba vietas licence.

Sist&#275;mas Tildes Jumis abonements dod ties&#299;bas izmantot visas jaun&#257;k&#257;s sist&#275;mas versijas, kas izn&#257;k abonementa darb&#299;bas laik&#257;. T&#257; k&#257; Jums ir der&#299;gs sist&#275;mas abonements, J&#363;s dr&#299;kstat izmantot ar&#299; sist&#275;mas Tildes Jumis 2005 Marta izlaidumu atbilstoši nosac&#299;jumiem, kas ietverti licences l&#299;gum&#257;.

Veiksmi darb&#257;!
Atpak


Language and Linguistics

Post 838

Recumbentman

The cap on the s suggests Czech. Try it through a language mangle. http://www.lai.com/temain.html


Language and Linguistics

Post 839

Recumbentman

But a google on the first two words brings you to a Latvian site.


Language and Linguistics

Post 840

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

>> Maybe ~jwf~ can confirm... <<

It is my general policy to never confirm, affirm or infirm anything.
smiley - winkeye
But let me say that in areas of common everyday human activity so universal, regular and widespread as cooking, there are variations from kitchen to kitchen, county to county and nation to nation. One man's egg roll is another man's burrito.

How many world variations on 'wrapping something in something else' are there? From the Earl of Sandwich to the donair, pizza, gyro, hero, sub or burger... There are at least seven kinds of Mexican dishes involving various sizes and types of bread (chalupa, dorrito, taco, burrito, enchilada, etc) where some form of 'flat bread' is wrapped around variable fillings.

We have in North American something called an 'English muffin' which does not and never has existed in England. smiley - bigeyes It is a heavy but air pocketed dough that toasts very nicely and is very tasty with jams and marmalades. It is about the same size as the American white bread hamburger bun or a large scone but is considerably lighter and airier than a bagel.

My point is that the names and recipes for many foods (especially staples like bread) will vary once they've moved a mile down the road. The only way to know for sure what something is, is to be there and try it.

But let me also say that 'bisuits' are probably variations on the kinds of sourdough pan cakes that pioneers and cowboys used to fry in greasy pans over open fires. Probably very similar to a true scone, but scones here are often sweet and may have raisins and cinamon and are more like what we also call 'tea biscuits'.

There is a product called 'Bisquix' which produces a heavier thicker flour that is typical of 'biscuits'. It comes in 'sourdough' and 'regular' flavours and can be shaped into larger loaves or smaller 'biscuits'. These are now generally baked the same as the softer white bread 'buns' and 'rolls'.

The distinction between biscuits, buns, rolls, scones, bagels, pancakes, pita breads and flatbreads is in the recipe and local interpretations. They are all designed to accompany a meal either as a shovel or a wrap.

Cookies though are desserts and usually flatter, smaller and contain sugar and sometimes fruit and spices. Chocolate chip, molasses, ginger and oatmeal/raisin are still the best sellers.

smiley - peacedove
~jwf~


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