h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/c/1035155_bishop_blasts_body_snatch_show

The Bishop of Manchester is labelling MOSI's "Bodyworlds" exhibition as sick, spiritually damaging bodysnatching that's reminiscent of Victorian freakshows.

I, personally, think that a man who preaches under a stylised corpse hanging from a plank, feeding "flesh" and "blood" to children should put the bricks down before his glass house gets damaged.

Any opinions?

some stuff to say

1 not surprised a religious leader is against education. there's a real danger kids who go to the show might think for themselves, and if too many people do that, priests just look stoopid.

2 like you said christians are ritualistic cannibals

3 are we sure doktor (with a k) von haaaaaaagens didnt pay the guy to complain for the publicity?

Given that particular Bishop's history of complaining, I doubt he needed any prompting.

And considering that none of the bodies were obtained without permission (as far as I know...) and how interesting and potentially educational the work is, all complaints I've heard so far have smacked of personal distaste that has been converted into a global Point because no-one likes to hear 'I dont like it, it disturbs me'.

I like it. It disturbs me. I couldn't go, I didn't want to. My mum did. She loved it, was fascinated and quite, quite thoughtful and very much awed by it all.

I would have liked to have seen the animals, but dead people do, erm, well, freak me out a bit frankly. Especially if, like me, your imagination is far too illogical and impressionable and has watched House of Wax...

I've been in Lenin's tomb. Now /that/ is disturbing.

Don´t be knocking victorian freak shows.

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Actually, that's very much in dispute! I have read articles in Discover magazine, and in New Scientist, that make the point that some of the bodies may be of executed prisoners.

The first three posters have been allowing their hysterical anti-Christian views to overcome their common sense. There's a great deal about that exhibition to not like, and indeed to worry about. If the complianer had been secular, maybe there'd have been a more logical reaction.

I actually have to agree with Vicky, as much as that bothers me. There are certain of the corpses which may have been obtained in unethical ways. Also this thread seems designed to just get to proclaim the stupidity of christians.

According to MoSI;


http://www.msim.org.uk/what's-on/body-worlds-4/faqs

towards the bottom of the page...

When I die, I'm leaving my body to medical drama.

RF

"The first three posters have been allowing their hysterical anti-Christian views to overcome their common sense."

You really need to replace Christian with Hypocrite for me.

And possibly hysterical with mordant?


Does Anti-hypocrite actually make sense

Well, check these out!
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Human-Rights-2867/body-worlds-exhibit.htm

http://www.art-for-a-change.com/blog/2005/01/body-worlds-art-of-plastic-corpses.html
Extract: "However, the real controversy began when human rights activists started to point out that the bodies used in von Hagen’s “art” may have been the victims of political repression.

A January 2004 edition of Germany’s influential magazine, Der Spiegel, featured von Hagens on the cover under the headline, “Dr. Death.” The magazine reported that the good Dr. had purchased the bodies of executed Chinese prisoners, and that the corpses had bullet holes in their heads."

Of course, the guy behind it is this guy.. and you can't deny a public autopsy is tasteless to say the least!
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,679330,00.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Worlds#Controversies

I simply find it bizarre that in the interests of attacking Christianity, some researchers reflexively support something that has at the most, a human rights diemnsion that is truly troubling, and at the least, is a violation of human dignity.

Vicky

i dont have hysterical anti-christian views.

two things - my comment (1) said 'religious leaders'. satanic verses, bezhti, ken livingstone's comments to a journalist. same things. its not just christians that do this, not by a long way. religious leaders complain about stuff thats not their business.

but comment (2) was about christians. dont christians eat the body and drink the blood of christ? arent catholics supposed to believe in the mracle of transtubstantiation, or however you spell it? that its LITERALY someones flesh their eating? you wanna talk about sick and disturbing, start there. or am i wrong and christians dont do that? which is it?

another extract from the same link given -
"While von Hagens denied his employees had knowingly purchased the bodies of prisoners who had [been executed], he did say “The likelihood is very slim, but I cannot rule it out.” Nevertheless, von Hagens returned seven Chinese bodies for “proper burial” when he could not prove they had not been executed."

sounds like the guy's actually pretty honest. not sure why the scare quotes round 'proper burial'. blog guy says 'Still, a “proper burial” while injected full of plastic seems an odd thing. ' why? isnt crating up a body, digging a hole, dropping it in and covering it up an odd thing?

then DA says 'at the least, [it] is a violation of human dignity'

er,no. it offends you, and others like you. it doesnt offend me. stuff YOU and others like you do offends me, stuff like eating flesh and drinking blood and burning books and hating gays and killing doctors or putting bombs under cars or in tube trains.

what your culture tells you is dignified is to take a dead body, crate it up and bury it in the ground. other cultures do other stuff, like burning on a big public fire, or leaving out for the birds to eat. and none of them are right or wrong, and to some of them the box-in-ground idea probly sounds nasty and undignified. ultimately, newsflash, its a DEAD BODY, so it just doesnt matter, really.

except doing what doktor death does is unarguably educational. you just cant say it isnt educational. you CAN say - in fact if your religious i EXPECT you to say - that you really dont want to be educated and you want to stop other people and their children from being educated. but lets all be clear that thats what you mean.

ive seen a bodyworlds exhibition. its very, very educational. its also disturbing. it hits you in the face with your own mortality. you cant look at the exhibits and pretend to yourself that your going to live forever. every label reminds you that what your looking at was once walking round and talking and having a life. i guess thats why it bothers religious people particularly, especially because their real bodies and nowhere, anywhere in the exhibition is there and posed body with a label on it saying "and this bit is the soul". and the other thing that strikes you is that in many ways our bodies are quite rubbish. we arent really well adapted to walking upright, our knees joints are rubbish, our eyes are pretty poor, and over and over again the exhibition shows you how we just break down. it hits you hard that nothing intelligent designed us. and it hits you hard that any one of the bodies could be you, that thats really what your like under your skin. its hard to face reality. no wonder the religious dont like it

"Of course, the guy behind it is this guy.. and you can't deny a public autopsy is tasteless to say the least! "

Yes I can. What better way to celebrate the life of a person than by using their remains to educate the medical professionals, surgeons, or just interested laymen of the future? If my organs couldn't be used to save a life through transplants, I'd have no problem with my corpse being used to enlighten the people through a public display of medical science.

Of course, you can't deny that organs that could be used to educate or save a life being left in the ground to rot, or burnt to a cinder is tasteless, to say the least!

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Educate? Two of the articles that I linked to, talked about how it's very unwise to take children to the exhibition, it tends to freak them out, so how educational can it be?
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What makes you think Christians oppose organ donation?
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There's no 'good' option, but then there's nothing good about death.

>> Educate? Two of the articles that I linked to, talked about how it's very unwise to take children to the exhibition, it tends to freak them out, so how educational can it be? <<

Er...did you notice how many of those opposing them as educational were religious? Coincidence?

>> There's no 'good' option, but then there's nothing good about death. <<

And I thought that that was the only way to get to heaven (dying, that is)...which is a "good" thing, right?

RF

What is being shown is what is inside us all. And yet how few of us really know what keeps us alive?

Yes, it's slightly 'disturbing' but only because most of us a fear of death.

I will be going - it does seem squeamish but that's my problem - hopefully going to see it will help to make it less so. I think we should do as the people who beqeathed their bodies did so out of pure altruism to be part of educating us all about our bodies.

Everything is consensual: the people allowed their bodies to be donated. When people go to the show they are paying to go and are not being forced to go...no-one is being harmed, people are being educated.

If one doesn't want to go don't go. If you don't agree with it...fine...no problem in someone saying so but don't try and stop others going to something that is perfactly legal and above board.

And from the religious point of view: everyhting that has been said before re: blood of Christ etc and also Catholics having open coffins showing the deceased(which REALLY messed the head up of a friend when he was made to look at his Grandmothers body).

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Maybe. (Which is kind of the whole point, there's doubt...)

Oh, and in answer to a previous poster, no, the links I left were intentionally not from 'religious' (as you call it) sources, but I tried to find specifically, links from Human Rights organisations and science journals.

The websites aren't religious. The people doing the objecting on them are, though.

RF