h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I personally almost always find most makeup to be doing disservice to the way a woman's face looks. Many insist on wearing it anyway even after being informed of that. I imagine my view isn't shared by everyone, but you might be surprised at the numbers who would agree with me.

Me, for one. I think most women look much better with little or no makeup. It amazes me how many women I see who wear so much makeup they look dead and yet seem think they're gorgeous.

turtle: Are you *serious* about being told that you weren't really suited for the position, because you were female??!! That's horrific! Isn't there a law against that??

Sometimes my makeup makes me look dead, but I do it on purpose. Not like real-life-in-a-casket-dead, but more like a ghost. But, I'm so pale I look like a ghost w/o makeup.

Yeah turtle, that is messed up. If some guy told me that I definately wouldn't get the job, because I would have smacked him one.

Sadly, it is true. The guy prefaced the statement by saying that he was old fashioned, and didn't think a women could handle it. And I should have complained, but back then I was too shy, I've grown out of that stage now, thank goodness!

Speaking of getting jobs because of gender, I have heard of it happening that women GET job offers because they are female. One time I was trying to help my boyfriend get a job (lazy ass that he was) by delivering his resume to various businesses. I handed this one manager the resume, and he asked me if it was mine. I said that it was my boyfriend's, and he was visibly disappointed. The guy actually offered ME the job without even having any clue as to what my experience was. And when I turned him down he whined that no women ever want to work for him! I wonder why. He never even bothered to call my boyfriend in for an interview, and he did end up hiring a girl, who only lasted a couple of weeks, when she found out what an asshole he was.

So I guess sexism occasionally can work in women's favor, but then you've got to work for the sexist pig, and that's gotta suck.

75% of top corporate jobs are held by men.
Yeah.

Being a girl just sucks.
Oh, and I asked the makeup ques. cause my parents seem to think I am not "feminine" enough. I dress skater-like usually, grungy as my parents call it. I am trying to change my style of dress, trying to wear more makeup-its not working. I want to dress more girly and in my opinion I have been for the past few months, but nothing is good enough, and ever since I got my hair cut a few months ago, like pixie short, I have been sick of all these old ppl mistaking me for a boy. Trust me, I look nothing like that, I like to think that being a healthy 17 year old that--whatever. Sorry to make such an out of place post here. I want to change, btw, cause I want to. My parents seem to want me to dress and act like a hootchie though-and that is just too bad. You wont see me walking around in platform shoes, no siree bob.

I can't say much about the leadership thing, because my shift supervisor is a woman. Her supervisor is a woman. And the next step up the chain, the division head, is a woman. But I would offer a few factors that probably affect the numbers of women in top management:

Fact: A great portion of women are not career-oriented. Even though the stone ages are over, some women still just work to support themselves until they can find a husband to do it for them. Men don't have any choice but to succeed. And of course, success in work for men leads to greater success with women.

Fact: Men are worse at taking direction, but better at giving it. Women are more often hesitant when given authority. I've seen it with two of the ones I work for.

Fact: Men take fewer sick days.

Fact: Men don't take maternity leave.

Moving on...

I hate makeup. When it is used subtly, so I can barely tell it's there, it looks nice, but I'd prefer none at all. Especially lipstick...yuck!

I prefer to keep myself clean-shaven, for the simple reason that my beard grows in a bit scraggly. Some dudes will grow theirs anyway, but I don't have the pleasure of living near de Nile. I'd always suspected that women preferred a clean shave for...umm...comfort reasons, but then I dated a girl last year who threw me for a loop. She requested that I not shave, but what she preferred is the rough stubble thing, so I shaved only occasionally for her, and not on days when we were getting together. How common is this sort of thing?

Ugh! I wouldn't think it was very common.

About women only working until they can find a husband, that is internalization of repression. Even today women are expected to get married and this is supposed to be their main goal in life. Look at books like The Rules and all the bridal magazines. When was the last time anyone saw a groom's magazine? I agree that there is more pressure on men to succeed. The main reason a lot of women aren't career oriented is because society doesn't expect them to be.

About taking and giving direction, I don't think that who's better at what has anything to do with sex. I think that has to be judged on an individual basis, and men and women are both likely to be one way or the other.

Rat-dress however makes you comfortable. Stop trying to dress girly and you will eventually dress more feminine as you get used to it. I used to be a skater girl. My best friend and I used to wear only big baggy t-shirts and pants. And my hair was very, very short until about two years ago. People used to ask me all the time if I was a boy or a girl. If it was anyone over the age of eight, I would ignore the question. Anyone except little kids can tell a guy from a girl, unless we're talking about a Pat type person, and I'm pretty sure you're not one of those. People who ask questions like that know that it's rude and are just trying to get a rise out of you, so ignore them. But, no matter what, you should dress however you want.

GargleBlaster, I have a female friend who is a stubble-phile. She generally rates men based on how good their stubble is. I wouldn't call it common but it happens.

I don't rate with her because I have a full beard (but then I was never interested in her in That Way, we just flirt a lot ).

Grey: what I was referring to is not ability, but approach. Men are more assertive by nature, one of the positive benefits of a Y chromosome and testosterone. Assertiveness is a necessity in management, especially the higher you go. It isn't necessary to be right all the time, but you have to appear as if you are.

I agree that genetics play a role in how assertive a person is, and on average men are more assertive than women. But, there is a lot of variation in the degree of assertivness on a person-to-person basis. For example, I am a great deal more assertive than the guy I'm seeing right now. And, regretably for the most part it has to do with our relationship, but it applys to other aspects of life as well.

There's also a difference in priorities that determines when people are assertive. I'm incredibly assertive when it comes to certain things, but the idea of "succeeding" in the business world just repulses me. I think that men tend to equate their success at work with success in their personal life. They've been taught by society that they are worthless if they don't have a high paying job. It's crap, of course, but it's still a common feeling. Men feel forced to keep trying to move up the corporate ladder because they think that they'll somehow be less of a man if they don't. Business is the modern day version of hunting for food. Guys often feel that if they don't get that promotion to regional manager, or some such crap, that their entire family will starve to death. Women, on the other hand, don't have this particular problem, so as long as they are comfortable with themselves and what they do for work, they stick with it. They're not in it to prove anything, they're just in it to make a living and maybe do something interesting with their lives.

I recently was offered a promotion to an editorial position at my publishing company, but I turned it down because I knew I would hate the job. And, while I may not entirely love the job I have now, it's at least something more along the lines of what I enjoy doing. Most men wouldn't even think that they had a choice in the matter.

Now, women on the other hand, tend to feel that their own success depends on making a family and pushing out little human shaped bowling balls. And society reinforces this. Women who don't have a kids or at least a husband are thought of as failures, even if they are the president of a Fortune 500 company. So even if they have a great job and love what they are doing, women tend to succumb to the getting-pregnant-and-giving-up-their-career trap, just to please their parents/friends/husbands. And the fact that paternity leave is generally forbidden doean't help matters. When a couple has a kid, it's still pretty much expected that the father isn't going to help out much, and that mom will have to do almost all of the work raising it, completely ruining any chance she has at a successful career.

So even if there is theoretically equal opportunity for women in the business world, in actuality there really isn't. We may have legalized equality, but you can't force people into believing in it. That has to come with education and experience.

To prove to everyone that I do in fact look like a guy, I will give you a pic of myself provided by iodine.

http://www.akula.com/~iodine/weird.jpg

I think a part of the agressive tendencies you observe does (do?) come from testosterone. But I believe that assertiveness of that variety would have more affect on the more primal tendencies (aka towards females, or when hunting) than in the corporate world. I also think the "go-get-em" attitude you cite in men is something we've internalized, not just from today's society but over thousands of years, because the women would take off so much time for childbearing.

In my experience, which is admittedly somewhat limited, beards are actually quite nice, when they're not too scratchy.

OMIGOD! Where did you get that five o'clock shadow from? You poor dear, no wonder people say you look like a dude. Is there some sort of medical proceedure to cure that? Perhaps you could request estrogen treatments, or something?

BTW, who's the cute chick on the right?

Rat; I'm assuming the one with the stubble was Iodine (or possibly some other guy). If this is the case, then you don't look like a guy, I wouldn't mistake you for a guy, and I'm fairly certain that none of my friends (ranging in ages from 16 to 46) would mistake you for a guy. (a look of consternation crosses face) You were the one without stubble, right?

For the whole marriage thing, my uncle's girlfriend has been, for the past two years, has been attempting to get him to propose to her before she turned 30 (he's slightly younger than she is). Reasoning? I can only assume she wants kids. They already live together.

Testosterone is present in everybody, but more so in men (our primary sex hormone). Most men's assertive nature is derived hormonally and from upbringing, including our corporate behavior, should we behave corporately. I don't, prefering to dull my hormonal edge with a rather tall drink of beer instead.

Hmm. Time for a new question. What do women look for in men? Keen conversation skills, or the amount of red meat that has accumulated in their small intestines (on average, 5 lbs. by the time we're 50)? Or something else entirely?

-jb

haha ok I really have to clear this one up. The body of the one on the right is mine-the face-a friend's. The one on the right is my bud vlada. She has a boyfriend though-sorry!

rat

let me clear that up further
the body on the left is rat's
the person on the right is vlada.... (rat seems to have been in a hurry)
and the stubled face is iodine (though only the face, i don't generaly wear skirts and tanktops, only on weekends and that was a schoolday)

So what prompted you to make such a picture? 'WAS IT THE DRUGS?!?'

Gonna have to brush up on the observation skills, I guess. I coulda swore those breasts weren't there before, though...

-jb

Actually it wasn't the drugs... it was very intence bordom. And a sick idea that poped into my head. and as you can see from that work i don't need drugs, i am naturally like this (or maybe its all the drugs drifting through the air, i mean i do live in NYC)