h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

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Mina asked that we put any constructive comments on the feedback page. A volunteer comments thread has been created at

F55683?thread=276795

Mort

Sheez, you take your eye off this conversation for a few days and you're buried in backlog!

Just toasted a few muffins over that nice warm bit in the middle

To g right back to a point at the beginning - speedily edited entries. I had a pick accepted on Monday which appeared on the front page today (Wednesday) - that's just one full working day in the system!

The entry is the one on Sawney Bean - http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A1047926
(Hi Wildman! I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your entry - I think it's great, otherwise I wouldn't have picked it, it just seems to have been processed faster than the eye can see!)

Re duplicate volunteerings: I'd love tobe a Sub-ed, but don't think I could commit the time, but even if I did find the time, I would not want to give up the Scouting, which I've done wince Day One, and feel very loyal to. I think I'd make a good Sub-Ed, why should I be refused?

But I would say that having an entry go through PR is a seminal experience for any Scout. I don't think it would be fair to make it essential, but perhaps make it 'recommended'?

Sorry - shouldn't be skin-specific: A1047926

'tobe a Sub-Ed' - my-oh-my that's a good advertisement for my skills! <laugh.

I've only scaned that last couple of pages, i don't have all day, sorry.

Age restriction - requiring people be on h2g2 a certain amount of time might be a good idea, but don't make it longer than a month, maybe a fortnight? But not allowing volunteers under 18 is, to be blunt, insulting. I am 16, have been a guru for 2 if not 3 years, (until i left recently) and I think i did just as good a job as anyone else, probably better than some. There is no reason at all that volunteers shouldn't be under 18, the fact that you think that says a lot about you. People seem to have very little, if any respect for the younger members of their community, even though they are quite often more intelligent, nicer and more astute people. This is something i haven't seen much of on h2g2, which is a great thing, don't let it start now.

Volunteer restrictions - Restricting people to one group is a very bad idea. When I was a guru i could often answer all the questions that needed answer and i was able to answer in a few minutes, so having another job as well wouldn't be a problem in the slightest. ACEing and Scouting are slightly different, however, as you can spend as much time as you like on them. There might be an arguement for not letting people be both ACEs and Scouts, but i don't think so. Maybe just keep an eye out for people not doing their jobs enough, and request that they resign from one.

There are probably things i've missed, but i didn't read everything carefully enough, sorry.

I'll go and post this on the editorial thread as well shall i?

Tango

"Maybe just keep an eye out for people not doing their jobs enough, and request that they resign from one."

That I think is an excellent idea- when people have more than one badge, and aren't up to scratch in one area, something nice and fluffy could be emailed to them privately- something along the lines of

"We notice you don't seem to have enough time to fufil your role as a Scout, perhaps it would be more rewarding for you leave the scheme and concentrate soley on being an ACE?".

Also, putting a required time break between joining schemes- you can't join one if you've joined another within the past month, that should give a Reseacher long enough to gauge how much time a given role's going to take, and if they can do another as well.

Without reading the backlog...

Madent said (quite a while ago) How can a scout do a thorough job in PR AND deliver up their quota when they are also, for example, an ACE, Guru and Field Researcher?

For one thing, a field researcher does his work for one time and then keeps his badge forever.

I think this is a seriously bad idea. I'm a Scout, ACE and Guru officially, UnderGuide Miner and BBCi Tester, I also have to spend time writing these sorts of posts . Look at certain volunteers like Jimi X, RhoMuNuQ (Apologize if I miscapitalize it) and others who manage it well.

If you limit the amount of researchers, there will be many less qualified in less popular schemes and schemes that require a lot of volunteers. If a researcher doesn't have time to be a sub-editor, scout, ACE, guru, CA etc. then they shouldn't have signed up, and they shouldn't be in the scheme.

Oy! Age restrictions. I'm younger than 18, and I haven't done anything terribly desructive to the schemes.

Maybe a h2g2 age limit. Then again, I volunteered to scout a few days after I joined and by the time a space cropped up, I had grown to redeem, understand and like the scheme. It's a sort of natural selection (Once again, I compare newbies to apes. Wait was that this thread ). If you can last long enough for the waiting list, you'll probably get used to it.

Limiting volunteer schemes off from them might make newbies upset as well.

Who suggested an RL age limit?

I'm 17 and wasn't that old when I signed up to be a Sub. I've never knowingly been discriminated against on here on grounds of age. So, basically, no. An age limit is not appropriate. After all, a decent GCSE English Language student should be up to basic subbing at the very least.

Whoami?

Age limits - no way!!!

Once you start saying people are too young, it's too easy to move on to saying others are too old and set in their ways - where would I be then?

I notice no-one's commented on my suggestion of some sort of training (or apprentice) scheme for those possible volunteers who are reticent about diving straight in. I know that taking a learner under one's wing for a time would entail extra work, but the feeling of satisfaction when it works out well is great! And it would be a good way to pass on those h2g2 specific tips for the likes of the Gurus particularly.

By the way - Thanks Cloviscat!! I didn't even realise I'd made the Front Page, I've been kind of busy here and there.

Tango wrote:

" But not allowing volunteers under 18 is, to be blunt, insulting."

Lying about people in public and refusing to take it back is, to be blunt, insulting.



I don't think an age restriction is necessary. As has been pointed out - if you can do the job, you can do the job.

Also, if there was a restriction on being in four different volunteer schemes at once, it wouldn't stop you from unofficially doing stuff. Many times I've answered technical questions, helped people with GuideML, welcomed newbies to the site, corrected errors in PR guide entries and suggested that entries in PR should go in the Edited Guide. I've never once held a badge empowering me to do any of these things, and I've never needed to.

If you want to help people with technical queries, you can - do you NEED a badge?

If you want to greet newbies, you can - do you NEED a badge?

OK, if you want to Scout, or Subedit, you DO need a badge - and doesn't that point up a fundamental difference in those two jobs to the previous two?

I'm not suggesting we stop people doing stuff they enjoy and do well - I'm only suggesting (or rather, agreeing with the suggestion, I didn't think of it) that concentrating on one job rather than trying to juggle two can ONLY result in an increase in the quality of the work.

Whoami? asked if I would consider a restriction as necessarily an improvement.

Well, no, not NECESSARILY. But it could be. Restrictions are sometimes good, and do help - restriction can be a wellspring of creativity. Look at haikus. Do the "rules" restricting the formation of a haiku ruin the poetry? Or do they enhance it, by forcing economy of expression?

I'll stop blathering now, pausing only to offer Tango another chance to retract his lies.

H.

OK! I admit it - I should have read the thread given on post 542 BEFORE that last reply!

Sounds like a great idea, wildman. I would certainly be willing to do it once I get more accoustumed to my schemes. I've certainly been doing it very unofficially as a guru and UG miner, my two oldest positions

Sounds like a great idea, wildman. I would certainly be willing to do it once I get more accoustumed to my schemes. I've certainly been doing it very unofficially as a guru and UG miner, my two oldest positions

You missed some.

If you want to do art they tell you you need a CA badge, but you still don't get to do some art and some others do.

If you want to be a translator, they tell you you're not allowed to use foreign languages (such as Welsh) on the site. The badge exists though.

Do Field Researcher (ie university badge) and Post Reporter fit into your 2 types any better?

Hoovooloo: "Lying about people in public and refusing to take it back is, to be blunt, insulting."

I thought we'd finished with that one on this thread. If we haven't, please send me some ear defenders. If you've got a problem, resolve it. Yikes the post if you haven't already.

Hoovooloo: "I don't think an age restriction is necessary. As has been pointed out - if you can do the job, you can do the job. "

At last! Something we agree on!

Hoovooloo: "Also, if there was a restriction on being in four different volunteer schemes at once, it wouldn't stop you from unofficially doing stuff..."

But the fact is the volunteer groups exist and serve a purpose. They're regulated, organised and they're also a bit of fun. Does someone being in multiple groups cause any specific harm? Cite me one example where multiple badges have themselves caused a specific problem. Go on. I'm all ears.

Hoovooloo: "OK, if you want to Scout, or Subedit, you DO need a badge - and doesn't that point up a fundamental difference in those two jobs to the previous two?"

Yes. But that doesn't mean the first two schemes are useless or extraneous.

Hoovooloo: "I'm not suggesting we stop people doing stuff they enjoy and do well - I'm only suggesting (or rather, agreeing with the suggestion, I didn't think of it) that concentrating on one job rather than trying to juggle two can ONLY result in an increase in the quality of the work."

Your logic doesn't follow. Not being a Guru isn't going to make my subbing any better, for example. I strive to do my best in all the groups. In fact, I learn skills that are transferable between groups.

"Do the "rules" restricting the formation of a haiku ruin the poetry?"

No, but you don't have to restrict yourself to haikus. You could write haikus *and* sonnets. Not writing haikus doesn't make you any better at writing sonnets.

"I'll stop blathering now, pausing only to offer Tango another chance to retract his lies."

Me too. Although I won't be waiting on Tango's retraction. I think you better decide either to do something more pro-active to resolving the situation, or drop it, but either way, stop going on about it.

Whoami?

I've been in rather a lot ofschemes, and there have been times in my life when I have been able to devote, 2 or more hours a day to h2g2ing, I know personally for me to be able to avoid boredom, I need commitments. At the moment my h2g2 commitements are..

Scout which I find immesenly statisfying, I find that this takes up around half an hour a day in PR
Sub ed, which I'm new to, I enjoy, but worry that I'm not up to standard, though a week is easily enough to complete the entries.
Post reporter, which I tend to do on the bus or in the common room on placement and type up.

I've given up ACEing because I think I was substandard at it.

I really don't follow some of these metaphors...

" I think you better decide either to do something more pro-active to resolving the situation, or drop it, but either way, stop going on about it".

I am doing something proactive. I'm asking for an apology. And I'll drop it like a hot brick and never mention it again as soon as I get one, here. If you want the subject dropped, take it up with Tango. The ball is in his court.

I'm not yikesing the post because
(a) I don't work that way. Only cowards and people who know they've lost attempt to win an argument by silencing the opposition
(b) subsequent discussion makes it obvious what was in the post in any case, so hiding it would be a waste of time
(c) if the post is hidden, the lesson is that you can lie about someone if you like, and it's OK as long as at some later time the post is hidden. I don't like that.

Please note I'm only mentioning this subject under two conditions:
(1) someone mentions it explicitly, as you have done
(2) Tango posts something here which is not a retraction and apology.

Other than that, I've just been getting on with the conversation like everyone else, as I shall continue to do if I've got anything constructive to say.



H.

note to hvl: you ain't never gonna get an apology from Tango cause:

a. he wasn't lying
b. you are being insulting
c. you are lying
d. re-read a-c

anyway, i think i made my comments about badges in the other thread on editorial feedback. i advise everyone read my comment there. it seems this conversation here has sort of spun into conversation on editorial feedback where people are continuing discussions and re-discussing things.

are there any other editorial feedback convos to start? so far, if i'm right, we have:

- badges
- volunteer groups
- notification of edited entry

i think hat's the only 3 so far. i've also started a convo on Front Page convos if anyone's interested. are there any other points we've discussed that should be mentioned there that aren't already?

spook