h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

riotact, your point about comparisons between France and the USA reminded me of an interesting conversation I had with an American acquaintance the last time I was over there. His point was essentially that the French have been cowards all through history, and probably always will be.

The interesting bit? Well, where were we having the discussion? Walking down Lafayette Street!

of course the french are cowards! that's how as many french soldiers gave their lives in 6 weeks as americans in 6 years during WWII! and what could be more cowardly than fighting in the french resistance? why that pansy pierre brossolette, he was so afraid he would spil the beans to the gestapo he threw himself out a 5th story window!

and let's forget about that cakewalk WWI, what a joke... now the texas air national guard, that's for real men!

maybe the French get an "A" for effort in WWI & II - but there's something to be said for actually *winning* in war.

Losing a large number of soldiers, whilst tragic, is usually a measure of how bad you are in battle, not how good. Whether this is brave or cowardly rather depends on which direction they were facing at the time.

RF

So was Dunkirk an example of British pluck then? How about Sir John Moores retreat in the Peninsular War. In both cases the British were heading away from the enemy.
Winning in battle has as much to do with the quality of your commanders as the bravery of the troops. No army is better than its equipment or commanders. The Zulus didn't win many battles against the British despite their courage.

*ouch* That hurts. But I guess the truth does sometimes.

If they were on the maginot line, facing Germany, and the Germans had outflanked them, I guess even though they were facing away from the enemy we should still give them credit for being brave. Because technically, they were trying to face the enemy.

Dunkirk was an example of the British Expeditionary Force being evacuated whilst under hostile fire. the principal achievement was to get so much of it back to the UK. I don't think of it as a victory, though.

I'm unfamiliar with Sir John Moore (and the Peninsular War in general, truth be told ).

Zulus - yeah, no-one doubts their bravery, but at a certain point it looks (from a Western viewpoint) like stupidity. Still, autre pays, autre moeurs (or something like that) - the same could apply to the Poles attacking tanks with mounted cavalry, or some of the (again, to Western eyes) frankly bizarre behaviour of the Japanese.

RF

technically, the allies (including the french) did "win" WWI.

i can understand saying the french army did a lousy job in 1940. i can understand arguments about french motivations in 1776, or the vichy government. what i can't understand is an obsession to continually bash one nation or another (in this case france); there's something about that mentality that just ain't right!

just b/c the thread conitnually bashes, doesn't mean the individual researchers continually bash the french.

So what you're might be true - "it just ain't write" - but either way it is inapplicable.

Besides, that's a lame way to respond to an argument you don't like - eg. by saying "it just ain't write". You sound Dubya.

We British have a long and chequered past of bashing the Frogs. Why should we stop now?

RF

...Exactly Reddy Freddy, and in continuation of that thought, here is a perfect example of Fr*nch idiocy...an article from our very own BBC, (that bastion of objectivity, truth and impartiality).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4355771.stm

All those Great Fr*nchmen (and a few women) to choose from, and as greatest Fr*nchperson of all time, they choose :

??Charli Gee ???

...what were they thinking?

*smug grin*

alec.

the general who refused to give up in WWII
ended the war in Algeria
helped found the EU

not a bad list of achievements

???
a)give WHAT up??

b)think about what happened in Algerie.

c)helped found the EU?? There ends the case for the prosecution m'lud.

alec.

1)refused to give up fighting the Germans in case you're really that ignorant of history
2)so do you think it would have been better for France or Algeria if De Gaulle had tried to keep French rule in Algeria?
3)case dismissed

Personally, I'd go for A3373102.

Le vieux chameau!

Ze Speef

this series, which has been by the way roundly criticized in france as well, is a copy of a british programme in which the winner was winston churchill.

the two men have this in common is that they are adulated within their own culture and far from appreciated elsewhere. personally i find churchill an insufferable windbag whose biggest claims to notoriety are the gallipoli in WWI and the italian campaign(the soft underbelly of europe) in WWII.

just to say i understand alec's attitude. and i'll even say that the fact CDG inspires such a strong reaction is proof of his status as a great man. remember, the popular british opinion of napoleon is that he was a mad tyrant!

that said, as french politicians go i'm much more PMF than CDG. the fact that degaulle is such a shoo-in is puzzling when the obvious choice would be louis XIV...

it's appalling to think that 8 of the 10 are from the 20th century, and worse, that 2 of the 10 are comedians!

What about The Incorruptible?!? Or Danton? Or even the viper-tongued Marat?

Or Phillipe-Auguste? or Saint Louis (was he the X or XI?)

Vercingetorix?

Or how about good old Baudelaire? Balzac? Flaubert?

Montaigne?

Richelieu? How about La Pucelle?

or just BB?

Nah... I reckon the nation's favourite single French personality over the past 2 millennia will probably be...

JOHNNY!!!

Montesquieu, Camus, Henri IV, Pasteur...

Personal favourites in their chosen field - Albert Londres, Hervé Bazin, Baudelaire, Mirabeau, Ney, chap who did the military engineering for Louis XIV...

sprout

I'd have thought Alec would've approved of a right-wing nationalist who always put his own country first, or is that only a good thing if its a US President doing it?

methinks you need to lighten up a little bit blackberry...

*i* used to be so left-wing i'd have blown away Karl Marx if he'd had the nerve to come around.
*i* have given evidence in Crown Court which led to the succesful prosecution of several members of the SPG.
*i* have been hit by eggs and other missiles thrown by NF yobs.
*i* was demonstrating in Lewisham when Blair Peach was murdered.

Don't talk to me in such snide cliches, ok.


alec.