h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

*would say a few things about "Christian" influance actually being *Catholic* influance, and that as far as actual scientifics go Biblical ideas are products of their ages*

*but won't*

Christians and Catholics are the same bloody thing...same Bible. Same with the Muslims...just a different ethnicity.

Bah.

Must stay

Actually Prodestant Christians and Catholic Christians use a *very* different Bible. Catholics (to be referred to as "they" in any later conversation - not being mean, I'm just prodestant) have a few extra books inbetween the testements, and things were edited differently after the split caused by Martin Luther.

And Muslims have an entirely different belief system. As do Jews. Even though the three religions are similar at a point, they all have very distinct ideas.

*raises and eyebrow*

You *really* believe that? Same origin, same dogma, same blind obediance in an asshole God (of course that is my opinion and I fully accept and respect you have a different one...). Wars are all fought over them. All hierarchal. All have prophets. All elitist. All repress sex. All demonise women.

It doesn't matter about the translation, or the pedantics, or which books were left in and which books were left out. Or how pretty the churches are, or who the predominant prophets are. Or whether you interbreed, or arrange marriages. It is all fundamentally has the same ethos (should really look that word up to make sure I am using it properly)to it.

*won't make a comment on her comment about God, except she finds it extremely offensive*

I do see where you're coming from with the all the same thing idea. But then, you'd have to say all religions are basically one in the same.

*is going to stop debate here and now - not because she doesn't have the wit and ammo to argue, but because she knows such arguments are pretty d*mned useless*

Particularly with someone of your position - meaning the fact you're convinced you're right, nothing more, nothing less.

*will shut up now*

Of course I am convinced I am right! What would be the point in saying it if I didn't? T'would be a bit silly!

Don't take my personal opinions of your religion to heart. It doesn't reflect on what I think of you unless of course you were dumb as a toad, and then I would use it as ammo. But otherwise, I try not to pre-judge people based on their religion. The followers are not the institution.

But a religions aren't one in the same...you have spirituality, and then worship, and then nothing at all. And then the whole pagan thing. And the multiple god thing. And the tiny ickle divisions. It's just the big one's all fall under the same catagory...

I really fancy some prawn crackers now.

Shall we get back to the topic now?

Oooh, good, someone who's not out for blood. (my one close friend is a Catholic-come-pagan and she will debate with me till she gets tired of screaming at me and then start again the next day. the secret is not to say anything about religion around her).

As something to show you not all Christians are blind believers - I do back up every belief I have with some common sense, something that shows I've thought about it to a certain extent, including the things I just *know*. I've found nothing to *truly* contradict my beliefs, but then I haven't exhausted everything yet. My only regret is not having as much education in multiple religions as I'd like.

But!

*ties up that tangent and tosses it in the basket to use later *

Where were we? Intelligence or something?

Yeh...um.

So do you believe in evolution? Or creationism? Or both? I tend to believe in the former (hence my basis in referring to instinct and schtuff) but I don't believe the latter is completely unfounded either. Lots of interesting stories. The whole *alien* idea is a good one in relation to intelligence. That somehow the human race is an offspring of an alien race and they gave us knowledge, but somehow we lost it, despite recording it in the pyramids/ancient civalisations of Egypt. But, the evolution idea is the one that feels the strongest.

Then again, beliefs comes in trend these days...

I do have a question though : how the f**k can you be a Catholic-cum-pagan? That makes no sense. The former attempts to obliterate the latter!!! She sounds a bit...um...foolish...

And I can never be bothered to tell people what to believe. Just because I haven't the capacity to believe in a God, doesn't mean I should berate those who do. Or dictate what they do with themselves. Although I will always berate the blood stained religions...

...especially Catholicism.


Um. I am trying to make a point. Hope all is understood. I am pouring vodka/dietcoke #5 right now.

Someone's making merry, I see.

In order...

I believe in directed evolution, which is sorta like creationism, but not. I find the fact that evolution and the creation story have a lot in common - in fact, most everything but the *time* factor (if one wants to be literal with 24 hour days) - quite interesting, and it leads me to believe that evolution could happen. However, I think it would be pretty darn impossible for it to happen with any kind of success rate without "help," I suppose.

To go back to another point that you brought up when you listed your problems with the Judeo-Christian religions: I don't see humans as the pinnacle of creation. I think there could conceivably be a creature above or equal to us, whether extra terrestrial or divine. Theologically, we are made of the same stuff as everything else, if not more base, and the only difference is the ability to reason on a high level and be self-conscious (which is I believe where we got side-tracked onto this tangent, isn't it? ). We're different, not superior. Some days I think my little pet has it better than me... she doesn't have to worry about paying back uni loans, having a boyfriend 4000 miles away, music juries, essays and papers, etc.

The alien intelligence is an interesting idea, too, but it doesn't account for where *they* got their intelligence. I have noticed, though, that civilization goes in cycles, swinging to one extreme and the other. You've got the starter civilizations, which had little else to worry about but food and water, and then you get to the Hebrew people and their contemporaries, who had gotten to the point where they were religious. [Yes, I'm sort of contradicting myself here; I'm speaking from a more anthropological view right now, not taking into account my *personal* idea of how things progressed] The arts come into play, as does philosophy, and it all sorta builds up (ish) to the Greeks. The Greeks were sacked by the Visogoths, and things swung back into the non-intellectual realm. By the time of Rome, the pendulum was closer to the intellectual side, at least for the aristocracy - this goes back and forth - the Dark Ages, the Renaissance and Baroque periods, the Romantic and Victorian periods (more the longing for lack of knowledge of things rather than the actual repression of them), then the Industrial Revolution and the many flips during the 20th century. All that to say - if we had gained intelligence from an alien civilization, it's easy to see how we would have forgotten about it.



As far as my friend goes, I have no idea how she really made the jump from Catholicism to paganism. She was raised as a Roman Catholic (a causer of many problems; 90% of my friends were raised so, and the same 90% are either agnostic or atheist at the moment), but she never really liked it. In high school (ages 14-18) she got interested in Wicca and the old Celtic goddess religions, and by the time she got to uni two falls ago, she had joined some sort of group, and is now a practicing (Wiccan? I don't even know, it's something along the lines of a feminazi relgion from what I understand.). I do find it odd, though, that she treats it in the same way she was taught to treat religion when she was little and Catholic. By that, I mean she treats holidays in a similar fashion, and that sort of thing.

I greatly dislike telling people what to believe, especially since that wasn't the way I was raised. Religion has been relatively free in my family, though my mom's more of the staunch methodist/baptist; my dad considers himself Christian but doesn't practice. They've never told me what to believe, and have let me explore whatever I wanted to so long as they weren't worried it'd physically hurt me (like I doubt they'd have a problem if I went more mystic or something which is good cause I slide that way anyway, but would be a bit annoyed if I went Aztec ). I do, however, not mind telling people what I believe and why. I like debates to a certain extent, so long as they are carried out in a calm, apologetic fashion (I have had several nasty experiences where the other side ended up cussing me out and attacked *me* rather than my beliefs), because that's how I debunk my own arguments.

Anyway, Christmas lunch is awaiting me, and I'm *starving*... so I bid thee a good day.

*bow, exuent left*

Hmmm. I see. The alcohol I have ingested has suddenly taken effect. Must sit down. Shall answer this later...I promise!!!

Tis alright... I think I went a bit overboard, but these topics that bring in all sorts of topics (er, religion, philosophy, science, humanities, literature, anthropology, etc) are what I really enjoy talking about.

Yep. Me too. I can go on forever.

'Cept for right now. Volunteered to help dad shovel snow from the driveway... o joy.

'Cept for now. Drunkish. Hungry too.



Oh and watching Jaws.

Curse that stupid heavy, wet, power-outage causing, tree limb breaking snow.

*goes to bed for a long winter's recouperation*

Hmm, I think I will go start a thread on something slightly similar. Where is the mind/soul located.

Hah. This thread


is dead.

Possibly because the person who started this claimed to be something he/she/it was the complete opposite of...

*ponders*

You gonna answer my absurdly long post or not?

I don't know if there is much to say to the absurdly long post, other than

Absurdly long post...ummm...no. Can't be bothered right now. Later!

Sorry, procrastination is the great thief of time.