h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I haven't read the backlog (yet), but apart from me, who else is from the country and knows that foxes don't do half the damage they're supposed to according to the 'ethnic minority' (good old Daily Mail!) who terrorise these poor creatures?

If the sport arguement is to hold water, the sport must mean sport and one side wins one side loses.
Digging etc is just killing for the sake of it.
That does not fundamentally alter my objection to hunting in general.

It would be helpful if you expand on that comment, fords

Mark, you are right.

Salmonella, BSE, the trashing of the rural bus services can all be laid at the door of the Thatcher government.

These things were objected to at the time, and if you read what I have posted you will see that I have said that Thatcher causeed as much or more damage to the rural ways of life as Blair. It is just that Blair was stupid enough to light the fuse of the hunt ban, and then added injury to insult with the complete cock-up of F&M.

As I have already said, it is possible that the real villains are the civil servants.

Ben

"the sport must mean sport and one side wins one side loses"

That is semantics, and you know it.

B

What 'sport' argument? Most hunters argue that hunting is needed for pest control, knowing full well that most city dweellers would object the the idea of fox hunting as a sport .

Incidently, I should make it clear that I don't hunt myself- but only because I don't like the idea of a mode of transport that doesn't have brakes.

I never said anything like that Mark, and neither am I in a position to comment never having hunted or indeed been on a hunt. Whether it is common place or localised it is not for me to say as I don't know.

Cheating is commonplace in every sport be it David Beckham elbowing Lee Bowyer in the face or Ben Johnson taking steroids - it's not fair but it happens ... I'm not condoning it but there's nothing I nor anyone else can do about it.

"Rules are there to be broken"

"Rules are there for the guidance of the wise and the blind obedience of fools"

make of it what you will

Ben,
We are dangerously close to agreeing here.
But once again I;ll say that much damage was done to the various country causes by hanging your hat on the hunting issue.
Ps dont forget what was posted earlier about supermarkets.

Since the civil servants are the real rulers, I guess that's so. Unfortunately, not many people can name the Principle Private Secretary to the PM, so we'll just have to wave placacards with Tony Blair's name on them.

Drag hunting is a sport- even though the outcome is a forgone conclusion. Would you like to ban drag hunting because there are no winners or lossers?

I believe he was refering to your comments about 'digging out' in relation to badger baiting.

If i drive a lorry, it's my responsibility to ensure that it's roadworthy. Saying 'I didn't know one of the tyres was bald' when it plows off the road and kills people is not a defence.

I'd suggest that if you are feeding cattle, the same aplies. Surely any responsible farmer would find out what he was feeding his cattle?

Mark, the hat was hung on that issue for us. Or for some of us, anyway.

'Other rural issues' don't sell news papers or foment class warfare and bigotry; therefore they are not mentioned in mainstream news.

The PoW was right on one thing, the rural population in Britain IS a numerical and economic minority. Unlike many, it is not media savvy, not particularly politically aware, and not good at spin.

The hunting issue was one of the fuses which ignited the march, but the fact that it is still the headline issue is the responsibility of the headline writers.

Apparently the Countryside Alliance sent a ten point letter to Downing Street on Monday. I will see if I can find the text.

B

Do you know what 'modified starch' is Blues?

Or 'hydrogenated vegetable fat?'

Or 'colourings'?

Or 'preservatives'?

B

'I didn't know one of the tyres was bald' may not be a defence- but 'the mechcanic whose job it was to service the lorry, and whom I trusted to do so, didn't reconnect the brake cables' is.

Surely up to a point the agenda is set in the bars of those London clubs so willing to aid marchers and relax the dress codes.
No wonder we lost the empire, in a club with out a tie what ever next.
the point is the landowners etc are extremely well reprenseted in this way.
Again back to the old boy network from schools and such.
For a DNA thought, Dirk Gently believed in the interconnedness of things.
Landowners send their kids to certain schools, they go on to be the civil servants and high flyers, who in turn make and influence policy.
The PM can only act on the advice he's given.
Working folk are never really represented where ever they come from.
The guide siad - no one was really poor , well no one worth mentioning.

Actually, no it's not. Your lorry, your responsibility. And I *do* speak from a position of knowledge here.

Interesting point Ben. I'll have to think on that, to be honest. My gut reaction though, is that as a farmer, you are responsible for the food chain, and you damned well *ought* to know what you are pumping into it.

On the food point- what, even if the Governemnt has told you that this is the best stuff?


As to the truck, does that apply to private cars too? It suprises me somewhat. I service my own cars, but most other people don't- it seems a bit harsh to expect someone that knows nothing about engines to be sure that the mechcanic they employed has done a good job...

For those that are interested here is a news release from the CA proposing a 'Rurual Council' analagous to the Arts Council, with the objective of considering all aspects of rural life, not just hunting.

http://www.countryside-alliance.org.uk/news/02/020923march.htm

Their Ten Points are:

What the Countryside Needs…..

1 Ensure any hunting legislation is based on the evidence, is just and respects the rights of local communities as set out in the Rio Declaration.

2 Put the needs and aspirations of country people at the forefront of rural change, and make their consent of paramount importance.

3 Enable British farmers to move away from subsidy dependence and support their ability to make a fair living in fair markets.

4 Instigate re-examination of competitive practices of supermarkets in the food chain.

5 Demonstrate a commitment to the reduction of social exclusion by rolling out broadband IT in rural areas to the same level as other EU countries.

6 Ensure public spending planning reflects the higher cost of providing services in rural areas.

7 Equality of provision of healthcare, education and public security between rural and urban areas.

8 Ensure that all Government legislation and action is rural proofed and all rural proofing is transparent.

9 Reverse disintegration of local communities by enabling them to manage their own affairs through empowered parish councils.

10 Require ALL Government agencies involved in rural affairs to reflect social and cultural issues and needs throughout their work.

So hunting is only 10% of the issue as presented by the CA, but it is the most urgent 10%, since the bill will be given parliamentary airtime in the next few weeks.

B

Retrospect is a wonderful thing.

If we hadn't wanted cheaper meat, the farmers wouldn't have had to feed their cattle synthetic foods, BSE would never have come around ...

The fact is though we wanted cheaper meat ...

We're all equally responsible.

As a veggie, you can speak for yourself on that one, Ekki. Facetious, but I'm not gonna take responsibility for that, sorry.

No, KA, it doesn't apply to private car drivers. Lorry drivers are held to be professionals in the eyes of the law, and thus responsible for their own vehicles safety.