h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Nice to see my quip about Donner Kebabs made little impact the other day

My point was that much that we do, eat, imbibe etc is unhealthy.

The long term consequences of over indulging in Donner Kebabs is heart disease or stroke most likely, just as long term use of crack cocaine or barbiturates is terrible for your health. Breathing in car fumes every day next to your office is not good either.

Surely the main point should be (and to BluesShark for making sure this point was already made) that the drug culture we now have is responsibel for the VAST majority of crime we now see. Change the drug culture and you'll change the crime figures. Pretty much as as simple as that really.

If you want to prevent people doing things that are unhealthy for them then you'd have to ban dangerous sports etc...
Car accidents have killed more people than ecstacy afaik

As I said before, ecstasy has a low mortality rate. For example, see Dr Russell Newcombe's paper http://mir.drugtext.org/ecstasy/russell.html

"In conclusion, the statistical risk of death from use of ecstasy ­p; [MDMA] or other dance drugs such as LSD, cannabis or amphetamines ­p; appears to be very low, at least in the short to medium term."

Don't pander to the sensationalists - if you want to say ecstasy is dangerous, talk about the possible long-term risks to mental well-being, not the imminent threat of death, which, though obviously terrible when it happens, is thankfully rare.

Dang, and theere was me thinking I had.

I know you had, BS, but I just wanted to reiterate the point for others. And provide a link to hammer the point home.

I really wish I understood the 'mountain goat' reference.
I thought we had established that the long term effects from these drugs was the biggest problem.
Of course, there si that 11 year old girl who just fied of extacy. They say she maybe thought they were painkillers - well she'd probably in hospital due to asprin overdose if they were.

I think the whole mountain goat thing is probably a reference to opium poppy seeds, used to make heroin

I understand where you're coming from with your views, Blues Shark, but maybe if you forgot where you work for a bit and took a step back from it, you might be able to see in a better way where people are coming from, myself included, when we say that legalising cannabis is a good idea? It's a trick I use myself when discussing/debating, and it's changed my mind on many a thing

Basically, I agree with Blues Shark.

People can do what the f**k they want to themselves, I'm a libertarian and I'm not going to stop them, but they have to take responsibility for it. If someone get's addicted to heroin and complains when they become a miserable junkie, then that's their own fault and they have to deal with it their own way.

"If you want to prevent people doing things that are unhealthy for them then you'd have to ban dangerous sports etc"

well, exactly. As long as adults have proper instruction in what they're getting into I don't see the point, in a free society, of wasting state time forcing them to stop. I want to be protected from the tyranny of others, not from myself. I think that that is the states role.

"...then that's their own fault and they have to deal with it their own way."

The thing is Zagreb, that they deal with it by stealing to get a hit. It is in *our* interests to help these people. They were stupid to get themselves into that position in the first place, yes, but we could potentially help everyone here...

Ste

It's a social problem, and we're all part of society, and people do get into dangerous situations such as taking hard drugs. It's not often I disagree with you Zagreb, but on this one I'm going to have to

I probably sounded a little harsh.

What I was trying to say is, yes, if people become addicted to a drug (through their own free will) and ask for help, then OK, yes, we should help them. But let's not let them play the "victim" card. It was their own fault.

If people want to get out of an addiction, all power to them. I'd be willing to help. But if they don't, what's the point of trying to do anything for them?

"The thing is Zagreb, that they deal with it by stealing to get a hit. It is in *our* interests to help these people"

Personally, I think it would be a good idea if the state provided drugs to these people. Not free, of course, otherwise people would take the p**s, but undercutting the dealers and with the understanding that the addict eventually must kick the dependancy. The addict would be discouraged from breaking the law (otherwise it's back to the more expensive dealers and the dirty street drugs) and would be encouraged to quit rather than encouraged to keep going. So society benefits. And money from heroin etc. sales goes to helping addicts, not into the pockets of organised crime.

Mebe we can develop a drug that cuts out withdrwrel symptoms, until its no longer neccesary.
Perhaps thats what u were trying to say earlier, but to many people, drugs are the solution to all the world's problems.
And I mean both illegal and legal drugs.

Well yeah, I'm only willing to help the people who want to help themselves - there are wasters who are quite happy to be junkies, and if that's the way they want it? Fair enough.

I'd just like to say that I had the misfortune to be doing my ironing last night while my flat-mate was watching '28 Days' with Sandra Bullock on the goggle-box.

I take back everything I have said on this thread. If non-drug using non-alcoholics are as sanctimonious, pompous and stupid as the people in this film then I want no part of them.

*Never* has a movie made me want to get more ripped/bombed and/or loaded.

Cannabis does definatley damage your short term memory and make you paranoid(i know ur all laughing at me)

There's no escaping the fact that ganja harms ur short term memory

Nice one Dr O

What was?

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