h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I must just say thanks to the b*****d who cloned my credit card and spent 500 quid on it.

I have the PIN if it would make life easier for you. Feel free to collect it down your nearest dark alley.



Time for a quick phone call......

Well I've phoned the number on the back of the card, and it's now blocked. Shame I've just this morning spend 10 quid on it myself, wonder what's gonna happen when that transaction tries to clear??

Now, how do I go about getting my 500 quid back??



Guess I have to contact the bank now and see what they have to say......

Apparently they will "be looking into it" whatever that means, which could take up to two weeks. :o

I'm wondering if I should cancel my direct debit paying off my card so that they can't actually take any money from me until they've sorted it out, or will the sue me for non-payment??

The credit card company will not charge you the £500 if the transaction was carried out after you rang the company to report the problem. That's normally in the case of a stolen card. In the case a cloned card, it depends very much on the company. Some companies will not charge you anything. Others might.

I would suggest that you cancel the direct debit and pay everything except the £500. If the credit card company insist on you paying the £500, make sure to tell us their name and then I think it is time to change company.

You have hit on the very reason why i would *never*, under any circumstances, pay my credit card by direct debit.

If you report fraud as soon as it comes to your attention, then you aren't liable, and the bank can do very little except swallow the loss. If they've already got the money, it may prove considerably more difficult to extract your money back from them.
Particularly as you have been unlucky enough to have used the car4d yourself before reporting the fraudulent transactions, which may give the bank a certain impression which, of course, is not true.

They *ought* to give you your money back though. You've acted in good faith, and it shouldn't be *too* difficult for them to trace tthe point of 'cloning', and the can look at things like spending patterns etc to establish whether it's likely you've de-frauded them.

Mostly, it's easier for them to swallow the loss of £500 and to claim compensation ifan offender s eventually caught than it is to risk you telling them to take their card and poke it. I've never seen an individual apear as the loser in the crown court in these circumstances-it's always the bankks, which indicates the loss is taken by them, not you.

I'm not sure I can do that. It's an internet credit card, and I think I can only pay by direct debit. If I cancel it, then I'll have no way of just paying off my own transactions.

There are two fraudulent transactions, then one of my own, then three more fraudulent. That brings us up to today when I just checked my online account. I made one more transaction of my own this morning before I noticed the problem.

It's not my fault, I still have the card sitting here infront of me. It's not like I was careless and lost it.

The chances are, the other card does not have a signature on it resembling yours. If your signature was not used in the transaction then you are not liable.

Are the other transactuons out of your geographical area, by any chance?
Cloned cards are often used in very fast 'hit and run' style, where a card is rapidly moved around the country and used very quickly before it is reported as cloned.
If you have been stationary, so to speak, whilst the card has been being used in Aberdeen, you're on pretty good ground.

I think I know what the problem is. Around the end of last month I had to order a new card because the chip on this one stopped working. They said I would get it in 10 days.

It's just coming up to the 10 day limit now, and I still haven't got the replacement. Clearly Consignia/Royal Mail whatever they're calling themselves these days have either delivered it to the wrong address, or the postie has nicked it. Some bugger has my replacement card, has signed it, and gone spending on it.

The laughable thing is in the email from the bank confirming the order of the new card, they said for my convenience the new card would aleady be activated so I could start using it when I got it rather than having to go to the website and activate the card.

If they didn't bypass their own security measures the card wouldn't have worked unless I was the one who had received it!!!!

The first two transactions were in Sheldon and Coventry. I've never been there so it can't be me.

Unfortunately, the other three are in Birmingham city center and Stirchley. Now I haven't been into the city center for months, and I've never been to Stirchley, but they are quite local. Especially to where I work.

Ah, if they've said they'll send you a new card and circumvented their own security in the process, then they can hardly complain.

This may sounjd daft, but if the chip has stopped working in the one you have, how have you been able to use it in the last couple of days since you ordered a new one?

It occurs to me you *might* want to cover your back and report the use of your 'cloned' card to the police.
That would make it very hard for your bank to say it was you, as you are unlikely to shop yourself.

"The chances are, the other card does not have a signature on it resembling yours. If your signature was not used in the transaction then you are not liable."

Regardless of how it's happened, none of the transactions can be using my signature. As you said, hopefully once they look into it all will become clear.

"This may sounjd daft, but if the chip has stopped working in the one you have, how have you been able to use it in the last couple of days since you ordered a new one?"

The magnetic strip still works fine it's only the chip that's died. In shops where they don't have a smartcard reader there is no problem.

"It occurs to me you *might* want to cover your back and report the use of your 'cloned' card to the police.
That would make it very hard for your bank to say it was you, as you are unlikely to shop yourself."

Probably a good idea, just to be on the safe side.

A horrible experience

Putting photos on credit cards would cut down on the use of stolen ones so that might have stopped anyone from being able to steal and use your card.

That wouldn't work for the cloned ones though, unless the photo could be scanned and stored and that would cost a lot to sort out the technology.

My dad had a call at home from his credit card company saying 'Did you just buy a £2000 set of tyres from a place in Kent ten minutes ago?' Dad lives in Bucks so it clearly wasn't him! That was a really good, fast, pick up by that company but it wouldn't work for me, I commit random acts of shopping all the time

When my credit cards were stolen in a burglery they managed to get £300 before I had reported the card stolen (they broke in during the day while i was out) and the credit card company did not hesitate to refund the money.

If you can't cancel the dd then perhaps you could reduce the payment to the minimum amount for this month only?

again

k

I would have done that as the first thing. But that thing with bypassing their security should definitly mean you've won your case.

Though I'm a bit disappointed this wasn't a How To thread

Also, for the time being, you are the 'loser' at the moment, as you are out of pocket, not the bank. They will probably not be too anxious to report it in the first instance as they are responsible for this. I'm still flabbergasted that an 'active' card was sent through the post!

If you do contact the Police, make a note of the incident number they give you and make sure you tell the bank that you have reported it and give them that number. It will help the police to tie up the two incidents and make their job (and who knows, that of mt colleagues in Birmingham, we hope), just a little easier.

"When my credit cards were stolen in a burglery they managed to get £300 before I had reported the card stolen (they broke in during the day while i was out) and the credit card company did not hesitate to refund the money."

Well since it's an internet account I've informed them way before I would have been able to with a normal account anyway. If I only got a paper statement once a month, I wouldn't have known anything about this until around the 18th July. It could have been a lot worse.

"If you can't cancel the dd then perhaps you could reduce the payment to the minimum amount for this month only?"

Hmmmm maybe. I'm still not sure, but they're not due to take any money from me until the 1st August so I'll give them till towards the end of the month to sort something out first.

If you can demonstrate that the card has been used fraudulently then the maximum you are liable for is £50. And even then the vast majority of credit card companies will swallow that loss so as not to alienate you the customer.

Tipping off the Old Bill about it, and telling the credit card company you've done so does seem like a good idea to me

I've got an internet card too - you can set the payment to whatever you like. Just make sure that if you are in the habit of paying it all off every month, that you leave £500 on it. If you only pay the minimum amount, there is no problem.

Either way, an email to the company stating that you don't consider that your debt, and so you are not paying it, or any interest that it might generate would be a good idea. Of course, any cashback accrued on the fraudulent amount would be lovely thanks very much.

Right then, I've called my local police station and they want me to take in a copy of the statement with the fraudulent transactions highlighted.

I'll pop in tonight and talk to them, then send an email to the bank informing them of the crime number tomorrow.

It may take a few days for transactions to become impossible Hooloovoo.

A mate of mine here had his card robbed at knife point a few years back (just at the bus stop at the top of Vincent Drive - scary) and they forcible extracted the PIN from him.

Afterwards he immediately cancelled the cards and called the police.

Five days later £500 was taken from a cashpoint in Brum using his card. Reason - it was a Barclays which was not his bank and the info of cancellation had not yet registered with them.
For peace of mind note that this transaction got three of them caught as the cashpoint machine in question was on a CCTV camera

They are probably still in jail.

It sounds to me Hooloovoo that you are probably going to be OK. *crosses fingers*