h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

It's been bothering me for ages now.

What is the difference?

PP

Eddie Grant is Reggae; Madness is white Ska.

a ska-babe called Ben

Hi Ben,

Yeah right thanks. Er and? So there is white Ska and black Ska? Didn't Eddie Grant record Baby come Back with The Equals. That sound like neither Reggae nor Ska to me, and Electric Avenue. Is that Reggae?

What makes it Reggae and not Ska? Pork pie hats? DADGAD tuning? Having a bloke with a Sax? Grass? Jamaica? Trojan records?

Sorry but I just don't get it.

PP

Hey, what do I know, I am just a white middle class honky woman, with no rhythm...

Surely it is more like a rainbow, where one thing merges into the next, than like a paint chart, where red is red and blue is blue and never the twain will meet?

B

I feel much better now. Thanks Ben.

P(White middle class honky with no rhythm either)P

The difference is essential historical. Ska as a musical form in its native jamaica was popular during the sixties and early seventies. It was pioneered by bands like The Skatalites (Guns of Navarone), the Upsetters (Return of Django), Desmond Dekker (Israelites) and the like. This was the sound that bands like the Specials, Madness and the Selector were aping. (And we'll not go into the ska revival in the States that was aping the revival sound-possibly the worlds first revival of a revival.)
Reggae is essentially a slower version of the same thing, popularised by Bunny Wailer, Bob Marley, Jimmy Cliff etc. Ironically, one of it's pioneers was Lee 'Scratch' Perry, who had formed the Upsetters.
It's not really a scientific difference-both stress the first and third beats in a bar as opposed to the second and fourth beat emphasis of rock, which is what gives them their distictive rhythm.
And that's without going into the complications of Dancehall, Roots, Dub, DJing and the the other myriad facets of the gem that is Jamaican music.
who just happens to be listening to the Trojan Instrumentals Box Set as he types, most of which is ska...

That is interesting, Blues Shark. Tell me, if I loved the revival stuff of the early 80s and want something which I haven't heard but will also like, what do I get?

Thanks

Ben

Thanks BS have been listening to the very same Trojan set as I drive around to from and at work, which is what set my mind at unease. When I think of tempo it seems to make more sense and then I start to think of the likes of Bob Marley (after whom our cat is named) and I then think about the "feel" of a piece of music. Reggae could be said (almost) to "swing" in the Sinatra sense.

PP

Hmm, you could do a lot worse, probably, than Trojans UK Singles Box Set which has all the big names accounted for-The Skatalites (whose signature tune was Guns of Navarone, later covered by the Specials), The Pioneers, Desmond Dekker, Jimmy Cliff as well as the Upsetters and early Bob Marley (the original Sun is Shining not the garbaged up version of a few summers ago). I got my copy cheap in the present HMV sales-(it's a good time to be buying reggae/ska atm ). Disk three is a little dodgy, if only because I think it doubtful that any sane person really needs Big Six, Seven *and* Eight by Judge Dread, but then some peoples tolerance of postcard humour is greater than mine... It has the advantage that you will actually recognise most of the tunes, so it's a pretty friendly little compilation.
The only one who isn't present is the great Prince Buster, who was the biggest influence on the Camden Nutty Boys, but there is a fairly good twenty greatest hits of Prince Buster available cheaply as well.
Any half way decent ska compilation ought to have a smattering of some, most or all of the above named artists. Trojan were *the* record label for most of the sixyies and early seventies in Jamaica, so they are always a good place to start.

I went into my local independent music shop (small trader, nothing is too much trouble) to order the new Swing Out Sister album and ended up walking out with the Trojan Instrumentals, Singles and Singles II boxed sets for £25. I buy loads of music on spec like that and am rarely dissapointed. The only problem is that I now have upwards of 150 new tracks to listen to. Or to put it another way about 9 hours of non stop ska.

Beyond Madness' greatest hits I have never bought anything of this sort before in my life!!!

PP

The Trojan Box Sets are particularly dangerous as at the price they are (£10 to £15, £7 in the HMV sale) they represent fantastic value for money.
And they just look *SO* nice...It really does make a difference to have an aesthetically pleasing object with nice sleeve notes and the like.

Not forgetting that ska is a, or was a record label

The stuff that I've been told is called 'ska' doesn't sound anything like what you're describing, so I'm wondering where it fits in. I've been listening to a band called Less Than Jake, and I thought they should be called 'punk', but when I called them punk in front of a longtime fan, she corrected me and said they were more like ska. Maybe they're what you mean by 'white ska'. They're basically a garage punk band with a brass section.

Wotcher.
Tell me more.

They sound like Reel Big Fish, a new ska band, and quite good!

Desmond Dekker is borderline ska/reggae, but the Skatalites, the Ethiopians, Don Drummond, Sir Coxsone (sp?), and even early Bob Marley are definately ska. Later Bob Marley, Prince Far I, U-Roy, I-Roy, Burning Spear, Mighty Diamonds, Steel Pulse, Wailing Souls, Dennis Brown, Gregory Isaacs are all different aspects of reggae. Too tired now to pull out my ska and reggae compilations and list more names. 'My Boy Lollipop' by Millie was the first ska hit in the UK.

Hmm, Less Than Jake.
One of the new American 'ska' bands that almost totally fail to get the point of the music they claim to make.
No Doubt are also classed as a 'ska' band in the States.
When I think of white ska, which isn't often, because i tend to think of it as ska, full stop, I think of the Specials, The Selecter, The Beat, Madness et al-those bands associated with the Two Tone record label.
American 'Ska' appears to a bastardization of punk with a reggae beat. I hate it nearly as much as I hate skate punks.

I don't like this blurring of ska and punk either BS. At the cd store where I work we have three different sub categories in our ska section - '1st Wave - Jamaican', '2nd Wave - Two Tone', and 3rd Wave - hardcore'

Can't you just be appallingly rude to anyone who buys from category three, in the manner of Hi-Fidelity?

I'm appallingly rude to half the people who come into the store anyway