h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Nay I canna leave it like that!
Y'never know who's listening.

Thank you Mycroft for possibly the most informative and entertaining posting I have ever seen.

I go now to eat some of your humbling PIE. It's apple actually, from this wonderful little bistro/bakery I've just discov...


~jwf~

It was lessa gentle rebuff of you jwf and more an articulation of passing curiosity. A whim if you like. I now understand about making and doing and where they came from but still wonder about making do - was it the mason gently kneading his stone into the desired shape and not quite getting there or was it the hapless baker who carefully kneaded the dough but brought something more resembling a brick out of the oven (oh how many times have I done that when trying to make bread!)

Perhaps the baker was actually a mason then?

I need a book mark

For ~jwf~ who apparently doesn't believe I have a credible source in my Indian friend.
Email just received:
"to make ---bananaa (so making is Bananaa) (spelt literally as the fruit Banana)
to do --kernaa (so doing is Ker naa)

e.g. 1

What are you doing ? ( the translation of question in Hindi would be like)
Kya Ker Rahae ho
(and if the person is making a tea say), he would answer as
I am making a tea i.e
Mai Chai Banaa raha hoo.

e.g 2
What are you doing?
(and if the person is doing nothing )he would answer as
I am doing nothing i.e.
Mai Kuch Nahi Ker Raha Hoo"

Interesting to note that said friend says to make *a* tea.

Sorry - I forgot to mention, too, that usually the word "tun" means "to put" or "to place" in German.

*continues following the discussion with interest*

>> ..was it the mason gently kneading his stone ... or the hapless baker who brought something resembling a brick out of the oven.. <<

The distinction - as shown in Mycroft's slice of the PIE (which confirmed Ictoan's hypothesis ) and the implications of TC's German usage translations - seems to be one of an ongoing creative process (shaping) subject to the mysterious vagaries of time and chance and circumstance (such as making music) versus a prescribed action that fixes, completes, or puts known factors in established forms or places (such as doing the garden).

other egs: I make a drawing but I do a jigsaw puzzle. (Is it really that simple?)

So I empathise with your confusion about the intent of the expression 'making do'. Unless, it is meant to suggest that one 'continues to struggle to stay put'. Also expressed as 'marking time' or 'treading water'. Maybe?

I know I have never (even now) been able to make sense of the idea of 'making' a living versus 'doing' a job. We do, or have, a job to 'make' money, to earn a living. Particularly confusing are those Victorian novelists who always 'put in' at least one character who is a vicar. He is said to have, or be hoping to acquire, 'a living' even if he's doing a bad job and just making do.

I am very intrigued by Mycroft's insight into the chaos side of words rooted in 'making' and the fact that this creative hands-on (shaping) side of human activity is ignored and been allowed to wither in those languages that just 'do' things. Perhaps there is an element of the old class consciousness here and the language reflects the traditional disdain that those who just 'do' (status quo) have for those who struggle to 'make' (manual labour) do.

Some people do lunch
and some people make lunches .

Curiously Arthur Dent found great satisfaction in 'making' sandwiches in a world where no one else 'did' much of anything. And I believe we all agree he showed himself the better man, confirming that we should all 'do' what we can and try to 'make' the best of any bad situation.


~jwf~

Do you wanna make lurve?

Or would your rather do sex?

RF

You can do a drawing, can't you?

H'mm.

Children "do" drawings - I still have an 18 year old one done by my daughter of her blue paddling pool.

Draughtsmen "make" drawings i.e. plans or parts thereof.

Wives make with-drawings from bank accounts.

Make with the gas!

Was it my use of the word 'apparently' which has caused you to view my postings on the subject of Hindi words with somewhat less than total belief? It wasn't a hypothesis, it was fact, as related by a Hindi speaker! There was no assumption in it.

I have MADE a large poster for my otherwise empty office notice board.This is currently a list cum spidergram of uses of do and make.
Adding to it every day , I am currently stuck on "I'll DO you" and "I'll MAKE you". The first can stand alone as a threat, but can the second?? If it can, what's the difference in meaning?
Consider the same phrases with added objects "I'll do you a fish supper"/ "I'll make you a fish supper". I assume payment is involved for the first.
This interest may result in an edited entry, may even become an academic paper. (In this case "may" signifies "unlikely in the extreme")

Hmm
Whereas "I'd do you" is a somewhat less than suave come on!

"I'll do you a fish supper" - seems more conditional, as in "If you fix the cooker I'll do you a fish supper". Seems to contain an element of persuasion to me, whereas "I'll make you a fish supper" seems more unconditional.

I think the nuances are more regional than national/international for this. "I'll do you a fish supper!" has a Scottish accent in my head. I don't know why.

To me, "I'll do you a fish supper" sounds like the offer/threat of a TV dinner whilst "I'll make you a fish supper" sounds (more) promising

Perhaps the scots accent,more to do with "threat" intonation
Where as "I'll do you......" and " I'll make you......"
only with scotch accent can one be consindered menaceing or a threat.

One of the other uses of "make" as oppossed "do" where bye
"make do" becomes more self explanatary!

Unless your learning the lanquage then only confusion as a child the word is used often before literal meaning or "roots" are learnt, more often than not another meaning to the word in the translation.

Ccotch is a drink or something people do to rumours - scots or scottish is, I believe, the adjective for people or things from Scotland

"I'll do you!" said with a cockney accent or a Brummie accent would be equally as threatening I think.

Dash it all! I meant Scotch at the beginning.

Surely "I'll do you" is a threat in any accent?