h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Or is Plymouth in Devon?

Anyway, it's down that general direction.

Plymouth, HoHo is certainly Devonian, but the majority of the Pilgrim fathers actually spake broad Lincolnshire. Not sure about the mothers.

They set off from Southampton & then called at Plymouth before braving the voyage West. Perhaps the Lincolnshire folk got on at Southampton?

Well, sounds reasonable. If you're going on holiday its always worthwhile taking in all the sights on the way

But did they take the cornish 'izzard' with them?

Do they want it back? Is the tip of the land now called the "L"?

I thought it was a comedian called Eddie.

RF

No, I think we've still got him.

>> Didn't the Pilgrim Fathers sail to America from Plymouth in Cornwall? <<

Not to fault Gnomon in any way he merely provides the subject of this rant.

I have often been given the impression by Brits that they think all Americans are descendants of that motley crew of scavengers who wrecked on a rock just south of Boston and found themselves dependent on the charity of natives for just about everything for quite some time.

This false impression may the result of so many Americans falsely claiming ancestory among the 'Pilgrim Fathers' because of latter day social importance placed on such foolishness by snotty and snobby Bostonians (my paternal grandmother's family for example). Because Thanksgiving is associated with this disaster, the wretched souls who survived the Mayflower crossing are given far too much publicity in relation to the overall pattern of immigration, creating the false impression that those few dozens souls fathered a nation. They did not. Most of the early fathering was done by the Dutch and the Scots, including those serving in HM navies and armies.

Fact is, the so called 'tideater' accents of North America which persist (less and less) in the oldest oceanside and navigable river settlements came from all over British Isles, France, Holland and Potrugal before 1700. The oldest were of course settled by fishermen, then farmers and tradespeople and merchants who brought with them whatever dialect they knew at their time, whether it was 1600 or 1900.

To illustrate the point, I again belabour the fact that the Stars and Bars of the Southern Confederacy is the Cross of Saint Andrew, and Sir Walter Scott is the patron saint of the 'clan'. Unlike the snooty Yankees of Boston, Southeners have forgotten where they came from.

Like it or not, most Americans did not descend from the Pilgrims, and those who do (or think they do) will have a drawling Boston accent. They like the 'idea-er' of going out in their 'cah' to buy 'cahn on the cob'. Even the Irish in Boston, like President Kennedy, sound like Pilgrim 'fah-thers'.

In the south and the back hills of the Appalachians, the drawl is the result of drink and idolatry just as it might have been in Glasgow, Belfast, Cornwall, Liverpool or London had they stayed.


~jwf~

Iwas under the impression that the stars and stripes was also linked very closely to the personal coat of arms and pennant of Washington or someone. Him being a bigwig and all that.

But then I found http://www.heraldica.org/topics/usa/usflag.htm which doesn't mention it!

Frank Young refers to the Union Flag as the Union Jack. In most conversations I wouldn't bother but as this is a flag expert discussion I think it's actually only referred to as the Union Jack when it is flying from the jack mast of a ship.

I would also agree the mass exodus to the states had started some 50 or so years before the pilgrim fathers sailed from bristol plymouth
and indeed several other ports, a lot of them haveing traveled from
Countries in Europe to escape religous percicution.
Rather like catching the shuttle from paris to london to get to state now

>> ..only referred to as the Union Jack when it is flying from the jack mast of a ship. <<

Technically, it was originally a naval term. But offically the term 'ensign' applied.

http://flagspot.net/flags/gb-ensig.html

An interesting and comprehensive page of info that link, which includes all the 'commonwealth' colours. The Union Jack was carried in the upper inside corner of several 'ensigns' including the 'red ensign' which was Canada's national flag until 1967 when they foisted that ugly red and white maple-leaf wallpaper on us.

The maple tree is native to only five of Canada's 13 provinces and territories.


~jwf~

~jwf~

"The Union Jack was carried in the upper inside corner of several 'ensigns' including the 'red ensign' which was Canada's national flag"

"upper inside corner" otherwise called "upper hoist" there is, predictably, the "lower hoist".
The flappy bit is called the "fly".

There is a turnip who presents a BBC local radio programme. I shall not mention his name (which is Allan Beswick). I am told that he became exercised at a report that a local council had instructed a burgher to remove his Union Flag because it is the monarch's flag and may only be flown with the consent of the local authority. He did an on air interview with a council spokesman where this was repeated.

I wrote to him to advise him that:
'No less an authority than Hansard reported:
"The question was again raised in parliament, and on
27th June 1933 the Home Secretary, Sir John Gilmour,
announced in the House of Commons that, "The Union
Flag is the National Flag and may properly be flown on
land by any of His Majesty's subjects."
Question 34 column 1324 of Hansard [CO 323/1272/21] " '

I have received nothing other than an automated reply, and, so far as I can tell, the matter has not been revisited. On the face of it, BOTH of his listeners are labouring under a misapprehension perpetrated by the beeb.
If Lord Reith had lived to hear this travesty, he would have been 114 years old.

*too lazy to look this up*

Why do we say Mary Mag-de-lin but the college is pronounced Maudlin?

Teasswill,
(btw - IIRC you are a nurse, so please consider yourself as lovingly hugged as netiquette allows)
the Roman fossil behind the counter sold you a train ticket to London although in his book it ought to be spelled Lundinium...and in a few hundred years spelling will follow common pronunciation and only the Headmaster (left over from today) will not say "Maudlin College"...temporis mutandur, that´s what makes language so interesting a topic.
Pit

IIRC? Optometrist actually, but thanks for the hug anyway!

So will we be saying Mary Maudlin eventually?

But how did one turn into the other

temporis mutandur, that´s what makes language so interesting a topic.
another interesting topic has a hazle nut in every bite squirells s...
BY "topic" is that for hyrechiphicliall speaking top picture which would actually be at the bottem .Or few hundered years mate has changed to m8 very quikely,must -(dash)

Hmm. Done a bit of searching.
I can see how maudlin has been derived from magdalen, but still not sure why the colleges are spelled one & pronounced the other. Probably just an affectation!

A man went into a Rolls Royce showroom and, indicating the hideous, slab-fronted Phantom, said:
"I'm thinking of buying one. How much are they?"
The salesman said quietly:
"If Sir needs to ask, Sir cannot afford it."

It may be the same principle.

Gonville & "Caius" pronounced "keys".

Hi jwf! I know that the American nation is not descended from the Pilgrim Fathers. But when backwoods Americans use a little-known word which is used only in the southwest of England, it is worthy of note that the said Pilgrims called in there on there way to America.

I've heard that the only reason the Pilgrims survived their first winter in Massachusetts was because the local Indians supported them. And the only way they could understand the local Indians was because at least one of the Indians had been to England and learnt English! Not the image of a first contact that is normally portrayed, is it?