h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I had an interesting converse the other day about the merits of the slang expressions - sod off, sodding hell, sod it.

Does anyone still use that slang?

My American friends and hubbie had no idea of what it meant...till I explained that it means bascially 'get lost, damn it all, or forget about it'.

He wondered where that particular slang was derived from, and really I have no idea...does anyone know? I did think that mebbe it was derived from sodomite..but that seems so harsh, in the slang terms as it is used for now. Like I have sometimes said 'sod off' in a mild disbelieving way to some people, or in exasperation at some mechanical thing not doing what it oughta!

What was funny, or at least to me, was my hubbie thought that I was referring people and our car to lumps of earth and grass..and he couldn't get his head round that idea *chuckles* which just goes to show how our use of slang as everyday language can confuse people whos natural tongue is not British English.

Yes, it is from Sodomy, similar root as b*gger off. People tend to forget, or lose the original ideas of, some insults, e.g. "Berk", which most people think of as a mildly insulting variant of idiot, is actually cockney rhyming slang, Berkeley Hunt. I'll leave you to complete that one for yourself. Similarly, in the cult comedy Red Dwarf, Lister consistently used the word "smeg", which has a very specific meaning. And in Only Fools And Horses, David Jason would consistently desribe people as a "plonker". Well, when I went to school, your plonker ws something boys had that girls didn't.

What words do you consider polite when asking where the toilet is?

"Can you tell me where the Ladies is, please?" - to people I don't know, or in company reception areas, cafes, etc
"May I use the bathroom?" - in other people's houses
"Can I borrow your loo?" - with friends


Do you think there's a difference in meaning between 'kids' and 'children'?

Yes. More of a difference of nuance, 'kids' is more proprietary "Never mind the dog - beware of the kids". There is also that awful attempt to be hip so well parodied by Pamela Stephenson as a social worker in Not the 9 O'Clock News in the early 1980s: "I know these kids, I work with these kids, I've lived with these kids, and in my opinion.... you should cut their goolies off"


Have you ever told anyone to 'p*ss off'? Was this in anger or were you laughing at the time?

Yes I have.
Yes it was in anger. Or more in sorrow than in anger. But it is not a phrase I use humourously. I use "swivel" humourously.


Do you speak to your children (offspring/kids) differently from the way you address your parents?

Yes. But only when I am in parental mode. I also try to communicate human-to-human with both generations.


If you were a teacher of English what level of formaility would you be aiming for? (My students are, on average, 40 years my junior; is it really silly for me to attempt to use more up-to-date terms?)

Use whatever language you feel comfortable with. Be yourself. Mind you, I feel comfortable using some slang that is almost certainly excrutiating to people under 25 - but I feel ok with it, so sod 'em!


How do you pronounce the word 'often'?

"offen"


What do you call your boss?

"Vinod" - because that's his name. I have also called bosses "boss" or "sir" when I am gently taking the piss, as in "right away, Boss", and "yes, Sir". I have not had that many women bosses.


Do you ever use words like 'dear', 'love' 'sweetheart' to (almost) strangers? Because you don't know or have forgotten their name?

No. But I do use them with friends, family, lovers, my cleaning lady, and other people of whom I am fond with whom I feel comfortable.


Slightly connected - what term would you use to mean 'puke"?

"Vomiting", or "throwing up".



Gnomon: "although I am no longer convinced there is such a thing as an error in speech."





Canicula: "Kick the bucket.... ever thought of the old days, when people got hanged, standing on something (a bucket) which was kicked away?"

That makes sense. I wondered if 'old leatherhead' was Oliver Cromwell?

Ben

>> ..what term would you use to mean 'puke"?
"Vomiting", or "throwing up". <<

I think I'm beginning to understand what 'register' means from the variations being offered on the several examples W was asking about. It's like the 'key' in music isn't it - ie: once you start a certain level of formality or familiarity you have to sustain that level? Of course that is the difficulty many people will run into if they try sustain a certain register either higher or lower than their normal conversational vocabulary.

Regurgitate is the only 'proper' verb for hurling chunks, talking to Ralph on the big white phone, upchucking, spewing cookies or puking.

And vomit is probably the highest register for the noun that identifies the result of such action. The noun regurgitation refers to the act and not really the resulting product, although some might use it that way if they were worried that their register was slipping.

I do hope I've understood what register means.


~jwf~

>> Canicula: "Kick the bucket...." <<

Yes I believe Canicula has aced that one!

I would only qualify it with the distinction that it refers to suicidal hangings and not to executions where the bucket (or other moveable platform) would be kicked away by others.

"Kicked the bucket" means 'died' because those who choose to end their own lives by hanging usually do so in private and are obliged to kick away for themselves.

The implication is death by self will (or even lack of it) where no executioner or other outside agency was involved.


~jwf~

Good points jw, but "kicked the bucket" is a phrase I have heard used to mean "died" without the implication of suicide or execution.

Ben

"Kicked the bucket" I understand. "Bought the farm", anyone?

Oh, and my favourite for puke is "toss your cookies"!

Red dwarf's "smeg" was invented as a swear word which meant nothing whatsoever, so that they could not be accused of using bad language.

Unfortunately, it is also a) the name of a fridge manufacturer and b) very like an abbreviation for an unpleasant substance, so people have made connections where none originally existed.

I enjoy cockney rhyming slang!

I think I read somewhere that it was developed in the markets, where the vendors would use it as a secret kind of language so that the punters would have no idea what they were on 'bout.

Thanks freddy (thanks for the trip down memory lane with Only Fools and Horses!), I wasn't sure if that was the root (sodomy) where it came from, now I know

To answer vixen's question: S*d is still in use. Even though I didn't know where it came from till Reddyfreddy told us just now, I would never say it. (Which means I am probably either prude or old-fashioned, what with my reluctance to say p*ss as well)

I just listened to "Four at the Store" on the recommendation of my sister (click on "radio" and "listen again" and "Radio 4" at the top of the page. She told me to listen because it was a really good programme with 3 stand-up acts, had her rolling on the floor.

The last act (Sean somebody) is very good on the subject of the British English versus American English problem. Especially for a stand-up comedian! Doing a gig in America, he says, he had quite a bit of trouble - by the time he'd explained what he meant to the American audience, they'd forgotten the beginning of the joke. I hope for his sake that he only invented the story for the sake of a laugh!

There's also a jolly good song in the middle of the programme about the difference between the way men and women express themselves.

Yes, a big thanks to the bbc for streaming radios....*hurrah*

I can still listen to 'The Archers' here in good olde U. S. of A, and other radio favourites and dockermenries... and keep a hold of my accent afore I'm an assimlated into the American accent...

>>What words do you consider polite when asking where the toilet is?

Toilet or loo. The two are almost interchangeable as far as I am concerned.

>>Do you think there's a difference in meaning between 'kids' and 'children'?

Kids are baby goats IMO. I hate the word applied to Children.

>>Have you ever told anyone to 'p*ss off'? Was this in anger or were you laughing at the time?

I rarely, if ever, use p*ss off. Get lost would be as strong as it gets

>>Do you speak to your children (offspring/kids) differently from the way you address your parents?

Yes. The small person is 4 and my parents are in there 70's so there are bound to be differences. The relationships are different too!

>>If you were a teacher of English what level of formaility would you be aiming for? (My students are, on average, 40 years my junior; is it really silly for me to attempt to use more up-to-date terms?)

I would argue that the relationship has to be formal and nurturing at the same time (if that is possible?).

>>How do you pronounce the word 'often'?
Off-en.

>>What do you call your boss?
Karen

>>Do you ever use words like 'dear', 'love' 'sweetheart' to (almost) strangers? Because you don't know or have forgotten their name?

No! Never use any terms like this with strangers or friends. My other half is dear and the little one is sometimes darling.

Red Dwarf and physiology are the reasons I would never buy that particular brand of white goods! I did think that Smeg was a contraction of the secretion produced by the Glans Penis but I am willing to be corrected.

Terms for puke. Throw up is what I would use in general. As a I would have used vomit. I like the Australian technicolour yawn best. Regurgitate is not the same as vomit although the mechanisms are probably very similar, physiologically.

turvy

The writers of Red Dwarf always claimed "smeg" was totally made up and any resemblance to any other word was purely coincidental. I'm not quite sure I believe them, though.

>>What words do you consider polite when asking where the toilet is?

I say "toilet", which isn't impolite, and "bog", which is. Polite words are lavatory, loo, WC (okay not actually a word), bathroom, etc.

>>Do you think there's a difference in meaning between 'kids' and 'children'?

No, but "children" is more polite. I generally use "kids". Or possibly "brats".

>>Have you ever told anyone to 'p*ss off'? Was this in anger or were you laughing at the time?

Yes, probably one of my more commonly used phrases. Used to someone I don't know well, it's rude, but among friends who take it as such, it's just jocular, and probably indicates disagreement rather than wanting the person out of here.

>>Do you speak to your children (offspring/kids) differently from the way you address your parents?

Not applicable.

>>If you were a teacher of English what level of formaility would you be aiming for? (My students are, on average, 40 years my junior; is it really silly for me to attempt to use more up-to-date terms?)

Generally don't use terms that don't seem natural to you, coz they won't sound naturaly to the kids either. Er, other than that don't know.

>>How do you pronounce the word 'often'?

OFFten, with a fairly hard t and a barely sounded neutral e.

>>What do you call your boss?

By first name, although at university it was always Doctor Whosit, although I think that made me unusual.

>>Do you ever use words like 'dear', 'love' 'sweetheart' to (almost) strangers? Because you don't know or have forgotten their name?

Nope.

>>What words do you consider polite when asking where the toilet is?
Jacks.

>>Have you ever told anyone to 'p*ss off'? Was this in anger or were you laughing at the time?
Yes - both.

>>How do you pronounce the word 'often'?
Ofn

>> What do you call your boss?
Christina Or - Des, if at work.

>>Do you ever use words like 'dear', 'love' 'sweetheart' to (almost) strangers? Because you don't know or have forgotten their name?
No, no and no. Mate, champ etc.

ah let me try:

What words do you consider polite when asking where the toilet is?

Could you please kndly tell me where the restrooms are (and hoping for the best) - anything else would be considered rude in public in NC

Could you show me your bathroom? - in other people's house

I thought kids is more American, while children more educated and more British.

I am pissed off and I told someone off, and it indicates always anger.

Call my boss 'kevin' his first name.

puke = throw up.

puke = spew, technicolour yawn, pavement pizza....*urgh* I have heard these terms when out on the tiles.

If I feel ill in that I am gonna hurl any minute, I would say I feel nauseous, as it is described politely here in the U.S.A even tho it isn't a correct term to use as such.

Why is a football match between two neighbouring teams called a derby?

Ben

I ain't never heard that expression for a footie match! It's usually used for a race of some sort.

Listen out for it and you're bound to hear it. Looking in today's Guardian I find that Liverpool and Everton met in "a frenzied blur of a derby." The 0-0 score line obviously doesn't do it justice.]

However, I have no idea why the word means that, or even why it means a horse race.

See about 4/5 of the way down

http://www.bbc.co.uk/lancashire/the_knowledge/resolved03.shtml

for one explanation of 'derby'.