h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Baba Yaga: witch, crone and archetype - A815807
Author: Zarquon's Singing Fish! (ACE) (Scout) - just back and catching up! - U182827

I've been telling Baba Yaga stories on occasion on camps and I think they're very powerful teaching stories.

I've a couple of h2g2 links to add, which I'll do this evening.

I could have added a bit more about the meaning of the stories, however I thought it might make the entry a bit too long.

Comments please.

Excellent, and very interesting. Many researchers will be familiar with the name through Mussourgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, where he paints a vivid musical picture of the dervish dancing of the hut. Next stop the Front Page (though not, of course, Frontpage).

Thanks, Guy!

There were links to pictures, which I wondered whether to include and I'm sure there is probably a music link to that.

The best link I found was unfortunately to a French site, which has beautiful moving pictures and music. I think it was to one of the 'needle and thread' stories.

BTW, if anyone knows any other Baba Yaga stories, I would dearly love to know about them. I'm told I''ve a talent for storytelling and I would like to add to my repertoire of BY stories. On a camping holiday, we had to do a play about fire (we were broken into four groups, each doing a different element - earth, air, water and fire) and our group did the Vasilisa story with me as narrator. As our group consisted of mostly older teenage boys, one teenage girl and some young children, it was absolutely hilarious. Picture the Baba Yaga played by a young man with the voice of the mother in 'Life of Brian'.

I've now added some nice links. I couldn't add anything for Mussorgsky as the link I found couldn't be accessed.

Baba Yaga bears a strong resemblance to Berchta in south German mythology (akin to Hulda in the north), who after the introduction of Christianity was turned into a bogy to frighten children with. She is sometimes depicted with a long iron nose and one large foot.

She also reminds me of a character by John Skelton, the 15th C satirical English poet (and Poet Laureate), called Elinor Rumming ("The devil and she be sib").

Most of the entry seems to consist of a narration of Baba Yaga stories, and I just wonder whether fiction is suitable for the Edited Guide. Sorry to have to bring that up, and do slap me down if I'm wrong.

It's fascinating stuff, however.

Bels

Folklore isn't fiction, Bels! It's part of a country's fabric. There are other entries on Fairy Tales and Myth. They contain important truths and are powerful teaching stories.

I have to confess that there is an awful lot that I could have added to this entry, however I didn't want it to get too long. There is a lot of symbolism in the stories. The hero/ines go through tests and trials and thereby learn to deal with the world better. For instance, Vasilisa starts out as being (too) nice and kind and where does it get her? Gathering wood in the forest while the other women in the family lord it over her. She goes through a kind of initiation where she has to rely on intuition and learns some of the ways of the wise woman. She learns how to sift things, this from that and gets her own fire.

Berchta rings some light bells. I shall have to find out more. I don't think I've heard of Hulda and I would like to know more. Most figures in mythology are replicated in other tales. Archetypes, you see.

Just had a Google on Berchta. I see you've quoted directly from one of the sources. Hulda has fertility aspects and Baba Yaga has those. She's one of the life, death, rebirth goddesses.

And yes, I would agree that there seems to be a connection. Perhaps I should expand a little more on the archetype stuff, but not tonight.

Do you think that would help?

Hi ZSF

Folklore is not fact. Folklore is a particular kind of fiction. Fiction is the depiction of imaginary events or people. It may be written or oral. Any kind of fiction may of course embody important truths (great fiction always does) and may therefore be a powerful teaching aid. That's why they get schoolkids to study 'Hamlet'. Fiction may be deeply rooted in a country or region, and may use symbolism, allegory and other devices to convey its message. I don't have any problem with any of that.

It seemed to me that quite a large part of the entry was simply narrating stories. Since you say you don't want the entry to get too long, it might be better, instead of narrating stories, to discuss the symbolism, the lessons (if you are in teaching mode), what the stories reveal about the country whose fabric they form a part of, and so on. Talk about 'archetypes' if you want. By all means use the lore to illustrate your points - of course. Perhaps the tales are collected in a book you could refer people to, or on a web-site?

As it happens, I've been thinking of writing an entry on Finnish folklore, particularly the stories from the Kalevala, which are part of the fabric of that region.

In mentioning Berchta and Hulda I was adverting to similarities in the folklore of another country, which is not to say that Baba Yaga isn't woven into the warp and weft of Mother Russia, but possibly to suggest that Russia may share such folkloric traditions with other countries. This is a perspective which you may or may not wish to explore.

I like this entry and I'm glad you're intending to do more to it.

Bels

Well, Bels, I could separate out the stories and put them in a separate entry. I'm slightly uncomfortable about the reader not being able to see what the stories are like. The ones I've quoted are a small sample of hundreds. As far as I can see, there's only one really good one available on the web and I've already linked to that.

That might be a good thing as it would allow me to expand on the symbolism. Many of the stories are powerful teaching tales and deal with stuff like rites of passage.

What do others think? Comments please.

I think it would indeed be good to expand on the symbolism, and talk about rites of passage and whatever else there is to learn, quoting from the tales to illustrate your points.

Bels

Great Entry, Really.

But where is Kochey Bessmyertny (Immortal Kochey)? That would be BY's boss/partner also present in many Russian Fairy Tales.

If you're interested drop me a line at my space.

I am raising two kids right now, and I must reactivate all my childhood repertoire... I'll go have a look if I still have my fairy tale books in the shelf.

See you later,

Anna

Simply because I didn't know about them. I'll drop you a line.

What are those interesting stories? I wish I could go through them !


Yours truely,

A.R.Shams,
author of the Creative Living Spirit"
series of messages.....

You'll find the entry by following the link in the very first posting.






ZSF!

I used to love Baba Yaga when I was a kid... but I only knew about two stories. Great! I'm torn between demanding more and more stories, and agreeing with Bels, that expanding on the symbolism, what the story elements represent, and quoting from them might be better. After such an intreiging intro, for example, I was reading the stories and wondering about these aspects. Annotations? I dunno.

Anyway, the Russian pronounce it YigGA, which might be worth mentioning, unless it turns out that that's how everyone except me pronounces it. And Baba has a connection to babushka, which is grandmother, but oh dear, I'm not sure if I can explain this very well, is _mostly_ the sort of slightly nasty nickname given to peasent women, in the same way that while Taffy isn't completely offensive to welsh people, it isn't entirely complimenrtary either.

nice entry, I'm with the others, a few of the stories (which you have) then an examination of the symbolism.

And what is "too long"? An entry is only too long if it gets boring and stops entertaining/informing.

Thanks for the comments, all.

I was wondering if maybe I could put some internal structure into the entry, so that people could skip the stories, if they weren't interested, or go back to them if they were. If that isn't possible, maybe I could put the stories in a separate entry and link to it.

I think I will do a bit more on the symbolism as it's really interesting (well, I think it is) and probably a bit more about links to other 'crone' types and what Baba Yaga means in the modern age.

If there are any more comments, I would welcome them. I want this to be a really good entry.

Nothing to say except support for the idea that expanding on the meaning of the ideas would be a good idea.

Great entry tho'!

There is enough material in the symbolism for a separate Entry, but then again if Singing Fish wants to do the hard work...

Just my 2p,

Anna

Singing Fish is more than willing to do the hard work! This is going to be a labour of love.