h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I've been kicking a topic around in my head for a while, and had sought out some related online discussion forums. I found myself absolutely appalled at what I found, so after thinking for a few weeks, I've decided to post here and see if I can stimulate some discussion on the topic. With a number of readers from a variety of backgrounds, I'm hoping to get a little better insight into what people think and why.

I'm going to start a second post so my page doesn't become unwieldy for those who read my journals but would rather not comment on this one.

Being female and in my late thirties, I'm frequently asked (and typically by people who've no business asking) why I don't have any children. I'm told I should "hurry up" before it's too late, that I'll change my mind and regret not having children when I'm older. I'm told a whole lot of things by people who don't know enough about me to make these kinds of assumptions, and I'm curious as to why they do. I read a lot of online postings where child-free people are called all kinds of names: selfish, unnatural, immoral, etc. I know I'm not any of these things, and I know my choices weren't made for these reasons, and I wonder why people think anyone who remains childless has done so for nefarious purposes. I have a few reasons for not wanting kids. I don't, however, arbitrarily apply those to everyone. I'm happy to disclose those reasons, when asked, but don't think I'll do so with this initial post...

Recently, I thought I might seek out one or more online discussion forums for child-free people, in hopes for a little comeraderie. Unfortunately, the online "communities" I've found are just hateful. I'll be honest and admit upfront that I don't automatically love all little ones; I take them on a case-by-case basis, and actually find a lot of them to be rather more annoying than adorable. But neither do I arbitrarily hate all kids or parents. I find the term "breeder" no less offensive than "DINK" (and I'm curious as to why anyone would think that the fact that there are two wage earners in a household automatically means they're both rolliing in it?). While I disagree, for example, with the practice of shopping centers, etc, reserving special parking spaces for expectant mothers, or with expectant mothers parking in handicapped spaces, I think that anyone who would deliberately park in a reserved space in way of protest must be a real douchebag. I have no desire whatsoever to associate with or participate in an online "community" frequented by that kind of person.

I'm not a hater. I ride public transport, and I'm usually the first one to offer my seat to an expectant mother or a woman with small children, even when the men on the train are still seated firmly on their asses (and more often than not occupying at least one other seat with their bags or their feet; as an aside, if there only were a hell, I'd love to see a special place there for the kind of jerks who put their feet on the seats in public transport). Some of my friends have lovely children. I have a great niece and nephew (well, mostly great, barring any attitude they inherited from their idiot parents), and K has a lovely niece and nephew, too. I adore them! I despise the concept of small children being allowed to push miniature shopping carts around the already narrow aisles of crowded grocery stores, especially when their parents are oblivious to the fact that they're in the way. I think children should be expected to behave properly in restaurants and when taken to movie theaters, etc, and shouldn't be allowed to kick the backs of seats, scream bloody murder, run amok, etc. I think the sort of parents that allow that kind of behavior to go completely unchecked are idiots, and I despair for the futures of their children. But I don't go out of my way to antagonize them. While I can kind of understand what it is about bad parents that makes child-free people so annoyed I don't get nasty about it- especially not toward the kids, who aren't at fault if they're not given boundaries or discipline.

Anyway... I'd be interested in hearing from those of you who are child-free as to why you've chosen to remain so (if it's not too personal). Those of you with children: why do you think some parents are so critical? Even defensive or abusive?

And why on earth should anyone think they have the right to try to bully me into having children?

(I'd also be interested to know if anyone thinks this would make a worthwhile discussion on Misc Chat/ Ask)

It might get it to a wider audience - I'd definitely put it in Ask, or the Forum.

Okie doke. I've been a little leery of Ask in recent years, as there are some people whose input is bound to be offensive, but the Forum actually might be a good spot! I tend to stick to my journal because I trust you lot not to be too mean to me.

Not sure how active the forum is nowadays, but don't think it's offense free!

Well, quite, but I wondered if it was maybe a more appropriate venue for "serious" questions.

Ask has a lot more vistors, though, so I might get more input from a wider group of people.

And it's not like I'm not conformtable with or prepared to "defend" my position. There are unfortunately just a couple of people who are so far up their own arses as to be useless in terms of meaningful discourse.

No one who reads my journals is up their own arse.

"conformtable"?

TGIF.

How little you know me. You've stumbled across the reason for my chronic back pain.

It is an interesting question. I know several couples who just very happy without kids. Yet many others will preface questions or talks with 'Do you have kids?'. I've not had the pressure of 'well why not' type questioning but then a female friend of mine in here early 30s who deals with USAians on a business level (face to face meetings and what not) does find whilst she may not get the 'but why not?' question, the look of shock that she is unmarried and without kids is very common.

There is, still, a family oriented bias to social normality. Being single in your 30s (or later) or being without kids at such ages is seen as somehow not being successful by some people I think. An 'everyone does it why haven't you, what's wrong with you' type thingy.

On the other hand I suspect that when they meet you it is the shock horror of 'You mean I have a choice? I didn't have to put up with these screaming brats and sleepless nights?' - envy and jealousy are not nice emotions you know

I pick up on a feeling of being thought less successful, too, sometimes. To me, it's curious. Obviously I know plenty of successful, or reasonably so, people with kids. But a number of people with kids I know, my sister, for example, have never been able to afford to care for their kids properly- and not just for the financial reasons. My mother is another prime example. And it's some of the people I know who are least successful at raising their kids who can be the most judgmental.

Among my circle of friends, there are actually more child-free people than those with children, but I suspect that's at least to some degree a combination of being birds of a feather, and also that some of them are still reasonably young and may well hope to have kids one day.

As a gay guy I've never been under the sort of pressure to think about kids: a lot of my straight friends do get asked about their plans for marriage and babies, even if they've got no desire for either.

I'm pretty neutral on the whole thing: I like other peoples kids but I count the handing them back as one of their best features, and I don't want my own kids. It's horses for courses and I know I'm not the sort of person who makes a good parent.

Generally kids behaviour doesn't annoy me too much: I can usually just sit back and ignore it, though I do have a particular hate for parents who allow their kids to run screaming up and down the aisles on trains.

p-c I share your disgust of people who won't stand up for pregnant women, old people or someone who just looks like they've had a crappy day: the day I graduated Uni, I was heading home on the train and I stood up to give a pregnant woman my seat when a guy in his mid-thirties and obviously fit and healthy moves to get in my seat before she did. I gave him such a telling off, made only more surreal by the fact I was in my graduation cap and gown.

Hi PC,

Yes, I have two adult daughters, both in their 30s. Yes, I would love to become a grandmother, but that is for my own selfish ends

Both of my girls have their reasons for not having children. It is not my place to persuade them otherwise - nor should anyone else attempt to coerce them. If children come along, they will be wanted and loved by all of us. If children don't come along, then so be it.

As long as you are happy with your decisions, that is all that matters

lil xx

A very good friend of mine has decided not to have children. I don't know how other people behave towards her (she lives in Bruxelles now, so I haven't seen her for ages), but that never played a role in our friendship. I can't see why I should try to convince her to have children - or why anybody would, for that matter. When we meet, we have the best of two very different worlds. She's very successful in her job and earns tons of money, and I have the children and a bad-paid job.
We each get glimpses of the other's world and problems. We laugh together, we cry together.

For me, it's so fantastic to have an intelligent conversation which doesn't focus on children and the problems they bring.

You shouldn't be in a position where you have to put up with such bad behaviour as you describe.

Next time somebody hints at it, or even downright asks, tell them they are offensive.

Do people ask K the same question? No? Thought so.

Ooh, speaking of people being rude on trains... one time while I was entering a train, a man who was waiting behind me (and for a much shorter time) literally shoved me into the doors to get into the one available seat before I could. I just so happened, however, to have borrowed pipe and basin wrenches from a co-worker, and had about 17 pounds of iron in my backpack. I stood right next to the jerk and made sure that every time the train stopped, my backpack "accidentally" bumped him. Hard.

That's got nothing to to with my original question, though, so I won't sidetrack myself just yet.

Thanks, Lil. I am happy with my life the way it is. I just don't understand why some people feel the need to comment or criticize. I can cut parental units who'd like more grandkids some slack... though I'm glad I haven't had any guff from mine.

psychocandy, I've had similar experiences just lately (must be something in the water, or else I'm really starting to show my age). I'll get back to you when I've thought a bit more about it.

Thanks, Bel. I don't think many people ask K that question, no. Though I suppose some people might find it strange that he doesn't want kids, either.

I love hearing about my friends' kids, little ones and grown-up alike. Some of them are so lovely, and I feel a little twinge of the pride and joy their folks must feel when I hear about all the things they do. I just like them in small doses, and like Iago, enjoy being able to give them back when I am done.

I occasionally think that my sometimes finding the prying or judgement to be a bit offensive might just be me being oversensitive or something.

It doesn't look like I am going to be endowed with grandchildren, but I can live with that

I do recall working with a woman who was continuously being asked when she was going to start a family. She always said she wasn't bothered about having any. One day I found her sobbing in the loo - she had just begun her fifth miscarriage. She was too scared to tell anyone that she wanted children.

Women always have good reasons for their decisions. They are never taken lightly

Due to an assortment of medical circumstances, Milady underwent a number of surgeries. And in the end, she spent our 10th anniversary (age 36) in the hospital recovering from total hysterectomy. By nature, she'd be an ideal mother for 6 or more kids, and we had hoped for several. So when someone gets that way, wanting to know why we haven't any, she gets very hurt and mostly unable to answer sometimes.

I suppose a lot of it is still the previous generations of society in us that make most people assume a couple are together for the manufacturing of kids. In fact, that was one of many factors in our getting married. But we understood long ago that some folks feel perfectly fulfilled in their lives, without off-spring. And have made it a point to never ask 'why' of anyone.

I am of two minds with facilities that have expectant-mother parking nearer shops. Yes, they are indeed more awkward and balance is a serious concern in our winters. Yet there isn't equal consideration for folks with any number of other walking impairments brought on by genetics, accident or age. Handicapped parking is limited anywhere, and it takes some serious effort to aquire a tag for the car to legally allow use of those few spaces.

As to the giving up a seat in public transit, I have rarely been in towns or cities to use the systems. And when I have, I simply give up my seat to anyone aged or female anyway, reguardless of gestational state. It's my nature.


PS: We do have that bonus of my daughter from the earlier marriage, who loves us both as her parents. And the enjoyment of her four children.

The "grandaunts" were very pleased with me. I married young, got pregnant within a fortnight and had three kids after being married four and a half year. I don't regret it (apart from the one I chose to father them, but that's another story)and it's quite nice to be middle aged with grown up kids and be able to - at least to some extent -live the life I want.

But battling family, studies and work has not been an easy chore, and I've had to abstain from both pleasures and career choices to make my life run somewhat smoothly and in an acceptable way for my offspring.

I don't think anyone should bother about other people's choices regarding family or not. If you want children and can provide for them, go ahead. If not - leave it. This world is not exactly underpopulated after all. There are as many reason for having - or not having children as there are people. Some people want but can't. Others don't want but have them anyway. Some want and can, while others don't want to.

Unfortunately we women are valued after our ability to reproduce, just like any other breeding dam . This makes some really desperate to conceive at any cost regardless the sense of it.

I don't ask anyone if they're going to have a kid, or if they're pregnant. If someone want to tell me, they will in due time.

Annoying kids... well there are plenty of them nowadays . I just don't like parents that allow their offspring to run around and yell, scream and don't take no for an answer. Sometimes I fear a world populated with overly spoiled brats

But a new phenomenon I've experienced the last few years are childless men in their late 30ies/early 40ies desperate to find Ms Right and start a family at once. A couple of my friends in that part of life are getting sort of depressed over being childless bachelors even though they seemingly live good lives.