h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Robert A. Heinlein - A650369
Author: Vidmaster - Take action before it's too late! Help stop the war! See my space for details... - U185266

A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein
authored by U185266 Vidmaster

I've actually had this entry on the guide for just over a year (since I joined), but have never gotten around to submitting it. It needs some work and could be made a bit better I'm sure, seeing as how I wrote it two years ago, but I'd like some outside input on it (or perhaps inside output ) before putting on finishing touches.

Apart from suggesting you highlight the names of the books and chucking in some commas, I think you've got a pretty good entry.

You also need some subheaders.
More separation between biographic stuff and info about his works would be nice.
Also I feel a bit uneasy about your handling of Heinlein's political and philosophical views. You either need to expand on it, or leave more of it out...
In my opinion at least.
Other than that, good job , the guide should have a Heinlein entry.

Can I get some specifics from both of you? I couldn't find any missing commas, and I like what I've said about his philosophy, which makes it difficult for me to make changes.

What do you mean when you say "expand on it, or leave more of it out..."? I'm just curious why you think this, not to imply that there's anything wrong with thinking it. Basically, I want this entry to be as good as possible, because anything else would be a dishonor to Heinlein in my opinion. I've been thinking of possibly putting together a university project on the subject because there's so much material to cover, but I don't think I can make the time commitment to something of that scale right now.

I did go through and highlight the book titles with italics, as well as making a few slight changes here and there. I also took out the part about Lazarus Long being his own son and father, because it wasn't true and was a misinterpretation on the part of the person I paraphrased it from.

you guys obviously know way more than me, i've only been on-site five weeks, i looked under authors, didn't find RAH and tried to start a heinlein entry (it's in CWW A849080) and am wondering if referring to his 'official' website at www.luna-city.com/sf/rah.htm would be out of line...i got 40 books on the shelves downstairs, tell me what you want a quote on, if/how i could help. thanks

Thank you several/random. I'll add the link to the entry.

Looking good Vidmaster I've just finished reading Stranger in a Strange Land... again.

One formatting change you need to make is to put all your quotes into a blockquote tag, like this:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
--Lazarus Long

That goes for the poem too, which also needs to be italicised.

I think this is definately a Guide-bound entry

Yeah, I suppose so. I tried the for a while and didn't really like it, but I suppose it's the standard format.

Thanks.

Fraid so. Even you don't like it and don't use it, the Sub-ed will put it in when your entry gets picked. Ain't no way 'round that.

It looks better than it did the last time I used blockquotes. I think I just didn't italicize them or something. But it looks pretty good now.

This is great entry, and I love what's there

BUT- I would like to see a paragraph or two on 'Stranger in a Strange Land'- after all, as you say, it is his most famous work, and anyone looking for an entry on Heinlen is likely to be looking for stuff on it.

"Once upon a time when the world was young, there was a Martian named Smith.
Valentine Michael Smith was as real as taxes but he was a race of one."
"Stranger' goes forth to descibe how a young man, born on the first earth-human voyage to Mars and nurtured by the extant Martian civilization, returns to Earth.
Contact was lost with the original expedition and an automated probe was launched, returning with photos that seemingly proved the Martian "canals were engineering works of some sort and there were other details which could only be interpreted as ruins of cities. A manned expedition on a major scale and without delay surely would have been mounted had not World War III intervened."
The captain of the second expedition, upon returning to Earth, was faceed by the High Minister of Science for the Federation (apparently like the United Nations, only hugely stronger, there is relative peace on Earth.) The captain responds to demands that The Man From Mars be immediately questioned by eminent scholars thusly:
"So he interupted with a snort of disgust. "Hnh! (ital) 'This man Smith---' This 'man!' (ital) Can't you see that that is what this man is not?" (ital)
"Eh?
"Smith...is...not...a...man." (ital)
Thus begins 'Stranger."

More detail it is. All of it my personal opinion of course.

The first thing I think you need to change is: "certainly the greatest of the twentieth century". Using "certainly among the greatest..." will get Asimov and Clarke fans off your back. (Asimov and Clarke fans out there, you need to get some entires together... don't look at me, I'm busy. )
You should also have a (1907-1988) fairly early.

Before 'Robert Anson Heinlein was born...' I would add a subheader of some kind.

I would split the following paragraphs up more, for instance right after 'before he had learned to read.' Some more biographical information would be nice also. A bit more about his youth perhaps. Like, when did his family move to Kansas, what did he study the one year in Missouri?
Another change in paragraphs here (depending on added material), and a rewording of the following paragraph to "In 1925 he enlisted(or whatever you do when you go to Naval Acadamy) in the Navy. After graduating from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1929 he served as gunnery officer on a number of ships until retiring from military service on a medical dicharge in 1934 due to tuberculosis."
New paragraph.
The switch to information about his works is a bit abrubt. When did he start to write? During his years in the navy, during the five years with all the changes in career? Were there times he didn't write at all?

The paragraph running from "His first short-story, titled "Life-Line" was published in 1939 in the ..." to "...Heinlein's 80th birthday." definitely needs to be split up, as it's difficult to read. Most of the information on his books and awards would be easier to read as a list, than as continous text. The paragraph also leaves out important biographical information. I wouldn't have known it did without checking out this RAH bio: http://www.wegrokit.com/bio.htm
(Lots of nice tidbits there that I think would flesh out the bio part of this entry nicely.)

After this you need another subheader. Then one for the future history section. And another over the bit about his poetry.

As mentioned by Kerr Avon you really need a paragraph or two on Stranger in a Strange land, a book that only recently came out in an unexpurgated version.

> I like what I've said about his philosophy
Well, I can't really figure out what you've said about his philosophy. (Maybe I'm stupid. )
Many Heinlein characters represent fairly extreme views on different topics. And to me your treatment reads as representing a couple of disconnected quotes as Heinlein's personal view. If they are Heinlein's views you need to present more arguments or a more authorative sources than Lazarus Long and his mother.
I mean, if you don't think Juan Rico's militaristic society doesn't represent Heinleins views then how do you argue that Lazarus Long with his clan of incestous, genetically screened, eugenic metuselahs is speaking the authors gospel?

I'm sorry, but to me it feels slightly incomprehensible and appears to have only your opinion supporting it. That doesn't mean you're wrong, just that you need something more to explain things to dunces like me.

NAITA

Oh, and keeping the quotes to a minimum is also a good idea. They might be a great addition for anyone familiar with the actual works, but for someone who hasn't read any RAH they don't necessarily make all that much sense.

The claim that Lazarus Long is his own father, hence also his own son, is, IIRC, from the blurb of Time Enough For Love. Confused me a lot since I'd read To Sail Beyond the Sunset years before TEFL and only vaguely remembered this being false. :D

wow! you guys are really nit-pickers for a Guide Entry, when there are already many many other well-established sites for heinlein addressing his philosophy, et.al. why can't they be referenced, linked, whatever and get heinlein in the Guide? vidmaster should certainly receive a doctoral degree, and we can all append our own opinions, additions, whatever.
i mean, look at all the threads there are already. condense them all to one heinlein Guide Entry. and tell the official heinlein site about it.

While I don't think an overview entry on RAH needs to go into every detail on his life, philosophy, and books, I do think this one has some noticeable gaps.

RAH's juvenile novels actually make up a good chunk of his bibliography (and I many of his short stories were juveniles as well), yet they receive virtually no notice in this entry.

Secondly, I would think that the Heinlein Society definitely deserves mention (and linking).

Mikey

I don't know: there's a fair bit about Starship Troopers and isn't that one of the Juvinile ones?

Anyway, You know I like this! But I was thinking, reading again, that the paragraph with the potted biography and bibliography was a bit blasted through. I think you could soften it by sspliting his life and his booklist up, or by adding a sentence telling us you are about to blast through or something.

I also agree that you are goinmg to have to say something more about Stranger (why is it his best known) and personally I'd like a sentence about why 'Spacesuit is considered so good...

Do you want to give me a sentance about why spaceship is so good? I haven't read it, it was a paraphrase of someone else. I'm not sure if I should add my sources back in or not, especially since I've never seen an h2g2 entry with a bibliography.

This is a very good entry, Vidmaster - a Scout has picked it and I'm all for getting it in the EG asap! However, do you have anything to add to the entry in light of NAITA's comments in Post 14?