A Conversation for Robert A. Heinlein

A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 61

anhaga

You mean the "reasons for incest taboos" right? 'Cause incest on its own won't really prevent birth defects.smiley - biggrin


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 62

NAITA (Join ViTAL - A1014625)

I never read paedophilia into any of the RAH books. Incest, yes. Paedophilia, no. Lazarus' twin clone daughters are young, but sexually mature.
One reason to avoid incest is the chance of birth defects. Another is the complicated emotional tangle you get when relatives are also lovers, or worse, ex-lovers. A third is the dominant position a parent, or older relative, has in, at least a young, person's life.

Having terrible memory for book details I have the impression that RAH operates with the male fantasy version of incest where _sexually mature_ children seduce their parents, absolving the parents from the guilt of having used their "position" as parent to force their offspring into a sexual relationship.

I seem to remember a couple of Maureen's children screwing up their relationship in To Sail Beyond, but I can't recall the details...

I agree with anhaga that mentioning the incest aspect belongs in the entry along with the right wing views.


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 63

several, a/k/a random

heinlein created, in his FICTION novels, a DIFFERENT WORLD than what we are living in, a third world, Tertius, in addition to the many OTHER worlds he describes in his books, each with its' own mores, rules and regulations. you're judging a work of FICTION, set in the far future, on the basis of what you know NOW, which is an issue heinlein addresses in dang near ALL his books. he vividly describes MANY different ways humans can interact, even interact with alien species, in a humane, semi-intelligent manner.
read ALL the heinlein you can, from the 40's to the 90's. you might be surprised to find he was a feminist before there was feminism, anti-nuke decades before 'No Nukes' and anti-war long before VietNam.
heinlein deserves being judged on his body of works, not an indivudual novel.
smiley - musicalnote


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 64

NAITA (Join ViTAL - A1014625)

I'm not sure who you're addressing here, several, or what topic. But I agree with you on what you say in the last two paragraphs. Heinlein wrote an incredible number of books, on an amazing number of topics. And he deserve to be judged by that. That doesn't mean one can't discuss the specific views and topics of single books, but one shouldn't assume they are Heinlein's only thoughts on the matter.

Which is why I earlier objected to the treatment of Heinlein's philosphy in this entry. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/FFM48874?thread=217262&skip=0&show=20#p2514534

Unless an authorative source on Heinlein's views, opinions and philosophy can be found and quoted, I think this entry would be better off mentioning the span of Heinlein's topics, and describing some of them. Some of the views were controversial when Heinlein wrote them but aren't anymore, some were and are controversial, and undoubtedly some have become controversial. Heinlein's work is best when you disagree with it, because it makes you _think_.

Not that you shouldn't think when you agree as well. smiley - devil


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 65

anhaga

Actually, I won't be surprised to find out the things you mention; I realize them already. And yet, the early feminist later wrote books in which principal characters are old men waited on slavishly by nubile young women (Stranger in a Strange Land, Time Enough for Love), and the anti-Vietnam advocate had characters advocate remorseless violence (Lazarus Long every five minutes). Perhaps it is this variability which attracts and angers so many varied readers of Heinlein.

BTW did Heinlein invent the microwave oven, calling it a "shortwave"?

anhaga


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 66

Vidmaster - A Pebble in the Pond

Just thought I'd let everyone know that this isn't forgotten, I've just been to busy with RL to give it the attention that it deserves. There's a break coming up soon, so I should be able to work on it then.

A lot (all?) of the criticisms of Heinlein in this article are taken from reliable sources. It was a research paper for English class in 11th grade, so I've still got the list of citations and whatnot, which I'm going to include in the final version.


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 67

several, a/k/a random

hi, i can't disagree with any of your points, and strongly agree about thinking (and chatting) about what RAH wrote. the opening quote in Vid's proposed entry is EXACTLY what we're talking about, to me. a man and a woman have to be all things at all times, some way or the other, from planting a garden to fixing a leaky faucet or the seeming leak in my car's transmission fluid.
Vid, take your time, RL is RL. i'm staring out at a frozen-over Lake Erie, except the wind is blowing the icebergs around so i don't have a bleep thing to do right now, except for the Vonnegut entry i-forget-who is working on.
THAT may be tougher than RAH.
smiley - musicalnote


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 68

several, a/k/a random

and i'll be looking for that 'shortwave' reference. don't 'cha like how he had Mike the confuser as a person, rescued him/her and put 'em in bed with Minerva/Teena as physical bodies to help run Tertius?
smiley - musicalnote


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 69

several, a/k/a random

and i'll be looking for that 'shortwave' reference. don't 'cha like how he had Mike the confuser as a person, rescued him/her and put 'em in bed with Minerva/Teena as physical bodies to help run Tertius?
smiley - musicalnote


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 70

Lentilla (Keeper of Non-Sequiturs)

Anhaga: er, yes.

Lake Erie's frozen over? Here it's sunny and if not warm, at least not ch-ch-ch-chilly.


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 71

several, a/k/a random

yup, the great lake named erie is pretty much frozen. we call it the giant ice cube. stays cold right along the lake 'til june, ten degrees warmer inland a couple miles. summer and fall are great, tho.
smiley - musicalnote


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 72

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

So, what's the status on this one? Are there plans to work on it some more, incorporating some of the many comments from this thread?

smiley - mouse


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 73

Vidmaster - A Pebble in the Pond

Yeah, I'll get around to it someday. Life is busy though.


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 74

several, a/k/a random

i am so tired of sub-freezing weather and layers of clothing and very much wish i could be in florida for baseball's spring training. take your time, vid.
smiley - vampire and smiley - musicalnote


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 75

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

Vidmaster wrote: "Yeah, I'll get around to it someday. Life is busy though."

If that's the case, you might consider pulling this one out of peer review and resubmitting it when you've had some time to work on it some more.

Otherwise, you really *are* going to have scouts like me coming 'round every few weeks or so, asking "is it done yet?" smiley - winkeye

I think this one has a lot of promise and potential, but I don't think it's ready for the Edited Guide as is. And as much as possible, we do try to keep Peer Review only filled with entries that are either already ready or that are almost there and actively working towards being ready.

smiley - cheers
Mikey


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 76

Pandapig

Hi Vidmaster,

Well-written article (although I don't regard RAH nearly as highly as you I'm afraid! smiley - tongueout ) In the spirit of constructive Peer Review, I did pick up one typo - 'Methusalah's Children' should be sp. 'Methuselah's Children'
smiley - cheerssmiley - panda


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 77

several, a/k/a random

a websearch will show many RAH sites, all with 'authoritative' posts. many differ in their interpretations. i joined in to h2g2 the moment i found it referenced and never meant to cause turmoil...there wasn't a Guide Entry on RAH that i found, so i wrote what i wrote and joined in here to offer any assistance to make a Guide entry.
i, me, personally, see many of RAH's words and concepts in DNA's works and also in Real Life, as in waterbeds and microwave 'ovens' and instantaneous conversations, and consider Heinlein as a grandfather to this whole site.
whatever i can do to help, i'm here.
smiley - vampire and smiley - musicalnote


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 78

Galaxy Babe - eclectic editor

Grok
He should be credited with inventing this word.

I use it sparingly, there aren't many things that happen in my life that make me go "grok"
(http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/g/grok.html)
Congrats on your entry Vidmaster smiley - bubbly


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 79

Vidmaster - A Pebble in the Pond

You should probably pull this out of peer review.

If someone else wants to write it and feels that they can do it justice, they can. There's a lot of good advice in this thread, and definate potential for a good article, or even a series of them on Heinlein. However, I've found that I have neither the time nor the motivation to write stuff like this if I don't have to.

See you guys later,
Vidmaster


A650369 - Robert A. Heinlein

Post 80

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

Hey there Vidmaster -- I can't remove this from Peer Review, but if that's what you want to do, you should be able to do it by clicking on this link:

<./>SubmitReviewForum?action=removethread&rfid=1&h2g2id=650369</.>

Thanks!

smiley - mouse


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