h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

My personal opinion is that tipping in general is a bad thing. It is unfair and unethical to make service staff rely upon customers to make up their wages. You might say that tipping is simply performance-related pay, and encourages good service, but it really is a sign of a less-developed society. Tipping means staff have variable wages, getting less pay in less busy periods. It is uncomradeship as staff may receive different amounts of pay (in places without a 'kitty'). It is demeaning as it places the fate of staff in the customers hands, putting them in a subserviant role leeching off other people. And in places where tipping has reached a stage of being the norm, where everyone pays say 10% as a convention, it just means that the prices advertised and on the menus aren't actually what you pay. In short, tipping is a bad thing and it would be far fairer and more honest if staff were just paid decent wages in the first place.

Americans will undoubtably agree, as tipping is almost part of their constitution, but that is what I believe. (No offense to any Americans, I'm generalising here).

you forgot to mention that in placed where tips are pooled, the whole point is nulled anyway, but most of the disadvantages are still there. and, performance-related pay could be achieved by the employers watching the staff and noting who was good or bad at it in general. isn't that similar to how it's done in other jobs? managment making note of performance? there are some people who will be rude to waitstaff no matter what just because they can be. that would be a much worse part of the job, too, meaning that they get paid less for more difficult work.

how is this almost part of our constitution?(no offense taken, none of that was offenive.some people are just too sensitive to any perceived slight.)

Well in my experience, tipping is much more prevalent in America than it is here (we don't routinely tip in resteraunts). Also I've heard a few Americans speak very strongly in favour of tipping - saying that it is what America is all about, rewarding those who give good service and punishing bad service, market forces, etc...

I'm not suggesting this is what all Americans think though

I disagree with tipping myself. In many countries it has been banned in the past (usually following a revolution). Also some companies (like McDonalds suggested elsewhere, but also other more reputable organisations) have a policy to refuse tipping.

ah.

i don't know, most of the *other* industries seem to have found ways of rewarding good work, punishing bad, w/o using tipping....

so, yes, it goes against the principle of equality(which i think is at least implied in our Constitution, and stated outright in other important documents which, if i reflect upon it and maybe do some quick research, i will surely remember, but can't quite recall just now, ah, right, the declaration of Independence(after aforementioned quick research)) in that people in professions in which tips are expected(so that's awkward, but it's still better than just saying "waitstaff") are paid biased-ly(so, it's not a word, but you know what i mean, and i'm not at my most articulate this late).

I'm with you there Frankie. In most restaurants here in America, the waiters are *mostly* going to be... how can I put this, white, and the busboys and kitchen workers are *mostly* going to be... well, black or hispanic. Waiters get tips, busboys and kitchen staff don't. Some restaurants have a tip jar at the register for "Chef's tips", but it rarely contains more than small change.

Based on that observation, tipping is not only unfair, it's also racist, because you sure as hell don't get decent wages bussing tables or washing dishes. And let's face it - if you're a handsome hunk with bulging muscles or a pneumatically endowed waitress with a cleavage you could park a bike in, you're going to get good tips no matter how crappy your service.

I work in a cd store where, of course, we don't get tips. Nor do we get what could be called a good wage - retail work is badly paid whatever country you're in. We do have a profitshare scheme though, and with the weekly staff meetings, it's almost like being part of a co-op, except the the owner has final say over everything. He has spent the last 10 years in the company though, so he's no dictator. Involving workers in the running of the company and sharing a portion of the profits amongst them is the way forward IMHO. Allowing some workers to have tips and others not, is divisive.

I tend to side with the anti-tipping people because I believe there should be a fair wage for all. Waiting on is hard work and should be rewarded with a proper wage. The other side of the coin is that it's unfair to pay for a service and then have to add about 10% on again. Imagine going to the garage and being presented with the bill and then expected to add 10% to it for the mechanic!

What on top of the 90% he has already added for Labour you mean?

Tipping IMHO should not be expected as it is in the United States. The last time I was there I had to point out to my mate that it was expected to leave a tip but he rarley did, so I ended up tipping even when it was his turn to pay the bill. This I found somewhat unfair as I was on the lower wage at the time. But he was in a low paid job that wasn't respected at all and therefore didn't see the context in which tipping is a necessity as in the US.

Us Brits when we go to America are notorious when it comes to tipping. I'vew even been sat with American friends and overheard some waitresses swear because all their tables are full of Brits so they aren't going to get many tips till she can shift them, and sat there and watched a previously very competant waitress then do everything to dissuade her 'British non-tipping' customers from dawdling.

As for me I generally tip in the UK only if I have received exceptionally good service. Someone going out of their way to make dining a very pleasent experience and overcoming any diificulties without making any excuses. Occasionally it will only be the change that is left over fromm the notes to pay for the bill. But if there is not enough and they deserve I will reach into my pocket and take more out. Having worked the other side I know the thrill it brings if you get more than the change you brought someone as it shows they actually though about the service you provided and valued it.

But I think it should not be expected of you, as you end up paying for lousy service just to avail your concsious.

Absolutly in favour of the fair wage argument, tipping as part of a wage structure just doesn't feel right.

However... giving somebody a tip for making your day or your experience just that bit special I think is realy nice. Most of the industries where tipping is prevelant are service based and can invovle somebody giving up 'a little bit of themselves' to make your life a little bit better. When you receive realy good service, it certainly feels like this.

In those circumstances I think a tip is absolutely justified. Not out of sympathy, not out of necessity or expectation but simply out of saying 'Thank You, you've lightened my day a bit'.

I agree with all you say but it would be nice if we lived under a system where a pleasant smile to the waitress would be just as rewarding as some small change...

I work in a bookshop where it is my job to help people and give good service (it's an independant bookshop too, so it's far more personal than a Waterstones). I sometimes spend twenty minutes with customers looking through shelves for books for their grandchildren or whatever. I don't receive tips nor would I expect to. I'm just doing my job, and I get a satisfactory wage anyway. Sometimes it's just nice to give good service...

BTW is this a 'contribute to the guide' or a 'talking point'...

I hope it's going to finish as a contribution, as information on tipping customs in different countries is very useful

Hmm, dissappointed that none of this discussion on the ethics of tipping made it into the entry. I suppose it wasn't that relevent, but it would have made for an interesting counter argument.

If you give a tip to someone in a poorly paid job, then you are subsidising their wages and allowing them to be more fully exploited by their employers (who will be first up against the wall, come the revolution).

You are forcing people of a lower social class to bow and scape for small chage.

Well that's what I think anyway, but there-again you do get better service when they expect a tip.


D.

As an (American) hotel employee, I am actually pretty opposed to tipping. Or, not really tipping itself, but the fact that there are wages that are cut in the belief that the gap will be made up by tipping. I'm a front office employee, so most of my experience on this comes from talking with the bellmen. We're an upscale hotel in a University town, and on special weekends (football games, graduation, parents weekend, New Year's Eve, etc.) when the the hotel is full with people willing to pay, the bellmen can make a killing. "Can" being the operative word - many of the clients (who are, in theory, making a good amount of money) that stay on these weekends can be very demanding and tax you physically and mentally, and then, as has been brought up often, leave nothing. (It's true that those who can afford it less are more generous!) Then you get the weeks where the hotel occupancy is less than 20%, and the bellmen could earn more by selling their plasma or something such rather than coming in to work. There is some sort of a kitty system for some of the shuttles the bellmen organize for our corporate accounts, but everything else is by luck. There was actually an older guy that used to work there and if someone tipped him very poorly for his work - gave him some loose change or maybe a dollar for hauling all their luggage, he would give it back and say either, "It seems like you need this more than me," or "No thanks, go get yourself an ice cream cone." Rude, sure, maybe that IS all they could afford to give, but I doubt it due to the average price of our rooms. Makes me smile when I'm frustrated.



Sorry for the ramble. At any rate - you want to improve service, then equalize wages, and let the customer tip as they please for exceptional or special service.

I ended up in London at an upmarket (for me anyway) nightclub at the launch party of a new thingummy jig with some minor celebrities. I was there partially to work and was being put up in a hotel by the company. As I walked into the hotel with my colleague I jokingly commented that the last time I had been into a Hilton I was working as a wine waitress, he laughed and said that the last time he was in a hilton he was working as a porter (illustrating our lack of up market ness). We went to the party type thing and generally had a good time. There was a guy in the toilets who was passing out towels to the guests. My friend used the loo and tipped the guy a pound. He went back at the end of the night and the only tip that the guy had made was the pound that my friend had given. We were both appalled that in this club full of rich journalists, popstars, business people and all, the only person who had thought to leave a tip was someone who probably didn't earn much more than the toilet attendant. I think it should be compulsory for everyone who earns more than 25 k a year to work for a week a year as a waiter/porter/attendant. Might alter their behaviour slightly.

You may be correct in your assertions...............however, until you can change the way that restaurants and such pay the staff, you're stuck with it. Here in America, many wait staffers are paid as little as $2.25 an hour. Feed children on that!! However, as a consumer, I feel more than justified for paying more (or less) for appropriate service. If a waiter is rude, surly or generally obnoxious, he'll be lucky to get a tip at all. If one really goes over the line, he'll be getting an earful from the manager that I chewed out for having such an inappropriate person in a 'people' job.

Actually, this is not so much the Ethics of Tipping, more an explicit description of the Game Theory of Tipping.

If you are only going to eat somewhere once, the tempation is to see it as a two-player zero sum game (I win, you lose) with the waiter, and cheat the system and not tip.

Because there are many waiters and many waitees, there are actually two games going on for waitees.

Game 1) They are playing a two-player game with their waiter. If they want to punish the waiter, the only criteria should be competence. Anything else is unacceptable. The waiter only has the power to deserve a tip.

Game 2) They are playing an n-player non-zero sum game (cooperative game) with every other waitee. They are collectively creating a market for good service which exhibits very strong Darwinian evolutionary characteristics. At a certain point the market will acquire a critical mass of tippers allowing bright able people to consider becoming a career waiter. At this point, it becomes self-sustaining.

It isn't the case, but it would probably help if the waitee looked on the tip as paying for the sort of service they want next time. The waiter sees tips as a reward for service this time, but conditions include his behaviour next time.

The concept of basing a tip on the monetary value of the service is insane. I have often had better service at pubs then at fine restaurants however based on a monetary percentage rule the fine restarant that brought me a $20.00 steak deserves a better tip then the pub owner with the $8.00 steak. I find this absurd. Instead we set a value per meal type that we feal the waiter would deserve provided they actually provide proper service and based on their rating we give them they can earn up to the maximum pre-determined amount. I do not care what the value of the meal is but rather the value of the service.

A waiter who simply drops off your meal, and you never see them again till the bill deserves a zero tip. Their job is not just to bring you a meal but to ensure a dining experience. I expect my drinks to be checked, my dining experience to be questioned throughout the meal. If I wanted simply to have the meal dropped in front of me McDonalds would have done. And why are they not tipped?

If we all stopped tipping what would happen is restaurants would start losing staff and have to revise their pay scales and their meal prices which overtime would find a happy balance. Personally I think this is the better way to go.