h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

If Tango is teling the truth about Hoovooloo lieing, then Hoovooloo is lieing when calling him a liar, proving his point.

If Hoovooloo is telling the truth, the Tango is lieing by calling Hoovooloo a liar, proving his point.

That is the unanswerable paradox.

However, if both are lieing then they are actually both telling the truth.

But, Hoovooloo's only claim to Tango being a liar is that Tango called him a liar, which is not a valid claim, while Tango claims that Hoovooloo lied about something he said about me.

So, if Tango could back that up, all Tango's claims would be true and only Hoovooloo would be lieing.

So, to prove Tango is not a liar, here are direct quotes from Hoovooloo from the conversation in which the dispute between Tango and Hoovooloo began. If you want to find their exact location then you can find them yourself at <./>T270267</.>.

(note - since i am going back through the conversation to find the lies they will appear in the reverse order to which they were said)

Lie 1: "there's no need for an ACE when you've got a yikes button and a moron in the same vicinity."

since i was the one yikesing then this is Hoovooloo calling me a moron. which i am not.

Lie 2: "Constructive and mature as I have come to expect from you, spook. You certainly don't disappoint."

this was meant in a sarcastic way as the reverse, so i was being called unconstructive and immature.

Lie 3: moderated. i yikesed the others since they were untrue insults.

i hope this settles the dispute. I have just proved that Hoovooloo is a liar and Tango is not, breaking the paradoxial dispute.

spook

OK- I'm not going to offer an opinion, merely some pedantry:

"lieing" is spelt "lying"

Why, thank you, my friend. I don't see how hvl can dispute lie 1, lie 2 on the other hand is only a lie if he was being sarcastic, and sarcasm is a type of lieing, so in fact, because of the double negative thing, he in fact told the truth. And lie 3 isn't much help really...

But it should only take one lie to please hvl, so thanks.

Now, is hvl subscribed to your journal?

Tango

well, i thought that, but isn't that the same spelling for lying as in 'lying down'? if it is the same spelling then it is very confusing really.

spook

yup - he sure is! i'm on his friend's list as are you for being his enemy!

i tink double negative in lying terms doesn't make a positive, as it isn't multiplied, it's added, making lie 2 2 lies. lie 3 is no real help so i may look in my e-mail records for quotig one of the postings moderated if it gives me it.

spook

hvl is indeed subscribed, although not online atm.

Tango

'tis the same spelling indeed:

lie
n.
A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

v. lied, lying, (lng) lies
v. intr.
To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.

from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lie

Whether using lie in the sense of "To be or place oneself at rest in a flat, horizontal, or recumbent position; recline" or "A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression." it is still "lying". And yet, in the past tense, one is "lied" while the other is "lay". Interesting.

very confusing. i totally was uncertain about it, and to save confusion, simply followed the old common technique that works for most thigs and added an 'ing' to the original word of lie. i think that made the message clear, even though it wasn't all proper english.

spook

Moderation emails don't contain the post, because the post is against the houserules are they're not going to send something offensive to someone by email, are they?

Tango

well, when they moderate one of my own posts they actually include the post they just moderated in the e-mail. i wondered if they, like, did that for posts you yikes.

spook

Just so we don't have any arguements about what if spook is a moron or not, here is the definition from dictionary.com:

"A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive."

Tango

Well, you can't really complain if your offended by your own post...

Just so everyone knows, i've emailed Natalie about this, and hope to have a response tomorrow.

Tango

yup. no doubting that definition not applying to me. a definite lie!

I am not going to join in with this debate, on either person's side.

I will, however, point out that number two contains no facts and is therefore not a truth or a fallacy (much nicer word than _lie_ i think) but an opinion. Number one can be taken that way, and number three needs to be taken in context.

Numbers 1 and 2 can be considered flames, however. I just don't like people referring to things as lies, when they're opinions. Flames are enough to warrant Yikes by themselves.

I have been down this road before with friends in real life, albeit when I was too young to know any better. It solves nothing until you can all agree to disagree. Flame wars never solved anything.

~

Owl: lies 1 and 2 could be taken as opinion, except that hoovooloo claimed that 'everything' he said about me was fact. therefore, is something he said about me that he claims is fact is untrue, then it is a lie.

spook

Not so. The only fallacy there is that everything he said was a fact. Just because you say something's a fact doesn't automatically make it a fact.

I tried to point out that most of hvls posts weren't factual to him, after pointing out that i didn't say he had lied, i had said that he hadn't been honest. An opinion is not honest, nor is it a lie.

Tango

PS Needless to say, he wasn't of the same opinion.

Tango

Ho hum. Anyhoo, I'll leave the rest up to you now I've had my English-language quibble. Just remember that it'll never finish if you keep expecting each other to apologise. Just agree to let it go and go back to being amicable about h2.

actually we don't want each other to apologise. Hoovooloo wans Tango to apologise for lying, me and Tango just want Hoovooloo to shut about about the issue, and we are hoping this journal entry wil do that.

spook