h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I only got yikesed a couple of times in my first six years here. I didn't even get yikesed when I called FM an irredeemable cretin. In fact I called a lot of people a lot of unpleasant things, and all of them satisfied themselves with cutting retorts. I'm not proud of my early excesses, and only mention them to contrast the current climate. I've been yikesed four times this year, and I don't really know why.

I guess people are getting more sensitive. A lot more sensitive.

The latest instance seems to me to be particularly unfair. I'd appeal, only I think I've wound the Eds up enough recently, and I'd rather save my powder for causes that matter. Instead, I'm going to use my Journal to ask a question.

I've never yikesed anything, and I never would. I simply disagree with the principle of one person vetoing words that another person wanted shared.

I'm willing to bet that nobody I care about on this site has ever yikesed anything either. Tell me if I'm wrong, and tell me your reasons too. Till then, I'll go with the hunch that my friends don't do it.

The people who yikes me seem to resent mockery. If they're truly hurt by gentle wind-ups, then I fear for them out there among genuine bullies in RL. But enough of them: here's the question. I'm wondering whether a "Never Yikesed and Never Will" badge would carry any value in the community. I really would like to see the practice reined in, to be used only in cases of grave offence, and with an expectation of restoration unless there's an objective consensus arguing otherwise.

What we have at the moment diminishes us. Censorship helps nobody to write better, and only serves subjective notions of reading better. Anybody who's ever pressed the yikes button and felt good about it is a person we don't need in h2g2, IMO.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I yikesed a post once. It was a post in one of my journals made by someone who opened an account just to attack me. I still don't know whoi it was. Here is a link to the initial exchange - the mild one that was posted first just to me. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/F95779?thread=4614344 Then she/he went to the journal entry she was referring to and suggested that I should kill myself and that the world would be better off without me. Then the same person posted copies of the original post to several other people. So, want me to take myself off of your friends list?

'Course not, Hyp.

I didn't mean the button should be abolished. I think we need it, but only as alast resort in instances of grave offence. Suggesting that someone ought to kill themself is certainly that.

You didn't feel good about yikesing even so, though, did you? And you did it once only, and I bet you wouldn't do it again unless similarly provoked.

And you posted here and told me. Thanks for that, because I do feel like I need to know and understand.

I've only ever had one post yikesed; it was a fairly firm retort that most people agreed with except the person it was directed at. It was odd to see a row of s and 'Well said, Rich' comments after the removed posting.

I've only ever yikesed one posting which revealed my real name, and I told the Researcher involved why I was doing it. No harm done.

I've yikesed a few Entries in the past, but only when they were plagiarised and the 'author' refused to do anything about it. I think that's different, though - that's how I was told to deal with plagiarism when I was a Scout. I certainly gave more chances than most.

None of this made me feel good.

I don't have much experience of being yikesed or yikesed against, but I'd agree that it should 'be used only in cases of grave offence, and with an expectation of restoration unless there's an objective consensus arguing otherwise'.

Pin, it's possible that on a different day when I was in a different mood, I would have left the post up even though it was vile and totally unprovoked. I don't know. But I don't think this type of situation is what you were referring to in your original post.

Sending a post to moderation just because you don't like someone or their point of view does happen on h2g2. Looking for ways to be offended, nitpicking posts to try to find a reason to hit the yikes button, trying to drive people off site because you've had disagreements with them - those things worry me, and I hope they worry the editors. It gives them a lot of unnecessary work, for one thing.

I've used considerable bandwidth over the years, here and elsewhere, defending free speech and other forms of expression. But there have to be rules and limitations. That's why we have laws against perjury and slander. That's why we try to quash hate speech. That's why we have laws that try to protect children from internet predators and pornographers.

The difficulty is that there are so many aspects to this question that things get muddled. Certainly a person should be free to express themselves through poetry or literature in whatever manner they believe best suits the situation. They should be able to write honestly about controversial social issues. A novel that represents a social position no longer deemed politically correct - ie. Huckleberry Finn - shouldn't be banned because 100 years later it offends someone. Publishers shouldn't force authors to rewrite books because the odd word has more than one meaning and a small minority takes it out of context and objects. Subjects like teen sex and drug abuse (and certainly not fantasy novels) shouldn't be banned because they offend religious fundamentalists. Political speech should never be censored just because you disagree with what is being said.

These are the issues I live with and fight year in and year out. Actual censorship of ideas, facts and methods of expression. So the petty little outbreaks on h2g2 are never a surprise to me. There is one fundie preacher who wrote a letter to the newspaper calling me the Whore of Babylon because I wouldn't remove a book he found objectionable.It was one of the Alice books by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor. One of my own board members savaged me for having Harry Potter books on the shelves. I have been villified for refusing to remove the Koran from my shelves. So they fixed that situation by stealing it. (Yes, I replaced it.) I've been attacked for having The Giver by Lois Lowery and the poetry of Jack Prelutsky and Shel Silverstein. I could go on for far longer than you have the patience to listen.

So, yes, I found it a difficult decision to hit that yikes button. And I'm not sure I'd do it again. The reasons people here often use seem pretty immature and unimportant, as do the petty squabbles and posturing. The content filter is making the situation worse. I have to use a content filter at the library as per both state and federal laws, so I sympathize with the editors in this respect.

What scares me is that censoring speech has become so easy and that people do it without thinking about the consequences of establishing a pattern of intolerance.

Thanks both

The great thing about this site is the insight it gives you into other people's experiences. It's a privilege to learn from what others have learned.

Back somewhere near the topic: something that's appeared in recent times, I think, is a habit of pretending moral indignation to disguise one's own intolerance. Maybe the most frequent yikesers are also the worst bigots?

Another thing - looking back over my various spats with other Researchers, I've noticed a pattern. It's the wordy people I get into arguments with, and probably because I don't give them the benefit of the doubt. People who are terse and opinionated get away with it more, as if using fewer and simpler words gives you a right to be slightly ruder. Isn't that interesting?

I feel the urge to compensate. I think I'll go pick a fight with someone succinct.

Another posting removed (earlier in the same thread as the other one, so not such a surprise).

Actually this one was more directly rude than the other, if anything, but still very mild.

Depressing alternatives:
- the yikesing pedant, emboldened by getting his way once, decides to clear out all the other insinuations that he might just possibly be a bit of a prat
- (worse) the Eds decide to hose down the area.

What really gets me is that the excised postings were more than just insults. They contained reasoned and intelligent counters (or what passes for the same within my capabilities) to the yikeser's own fixations.

I suppose he could yikes everything I've ever written (except the EG Entries, which are the cr*p bits anyway). Oh well, muted by an idiot. It has a kind of poetic justice, I guess. Perhaps I'll have to donate my Complete Works to a certain library (thereby finally costing Hyp her job)

" I think I'll go pick a fight with someone succinct."

That's bollocks.

B

What's with the "That's"?

You verbose pillock.

Yeah, I realised that a bit too late.

Maybe I do want an Edit button after all.

B

You could query the decision without being appealing …

Seriously.

It would be a doddle for you.

Seriously II.
Given that moderation’s contracted out and done as a blanket exercise across the Beeb (or so I understand it), the only way our italics know how it’s being operated is by feedback from the yikesed. Your modded posts may just have been the decision of least resistance for a contracted out, uninvested, trainee mod.




I’ve yikesed several posts. Back in the day when community responsibility exempted us from an imposed profanity filter I yikesed a couple of posts using h2g2 as an advertising hoarding for dodgy stuff, and also a set of dingy posts that belonged on the wall of a public convenience – they hadn’t a single spark of wit, originality or point and I got annoyed and pressed the ‘yikes’. That one, now we’ve got a prof.filter anyway, I regret. I don’t like the feeling after yikesing.

Since the prof filter, I’ve yikesed a handful of posts where kids were giving email addresses, names, ages etc that it seems generally accepted is dangerous for them to do.

Found those trying to work out how those Raven games worked. It’s v sad, I know, but I still want to know that. Never did work it out.




OT I don't understand the wish on hootoo for an edit button, the scope to cause terrific rows by posting something extreme then replacing it with something innocuous is hair-raising.



Hyp, didn't konw you'd had that to deal with. Horrid.

I guess.
But it's not really worth an appeal.
Should he yikes anything of real merit, I'd appeal then.

Anyway I'm feeling sufficiently incendiary with GoE in the latest Post. Good on you, Rich.

The post itself may not be worth it but unecessarily modded posts being left unreinstated sends wrong messages to the yikeser, the modds, the thread readers ... and leads to more censorship. If it leads anywhere.

Removing posts will only be restricted to cases of grave offence (and necessary removal of ads etc) if hootooers keep picking up on unecessary moddings and our italics have the time to back those up and reinstate them.

Your call but. And if you've another G of E to on, go for it.

OK you persuaded me.
I'll plead to the Eds, and hide behind your Skirts of Dignity and Good Standing.
In other words, blame Waz

Dropping in from the EF thread.
Interesting journal.
I've had a few posts yikesed and I've yikesed a few - usually blatant advertising on new accounts I came across in my capacity as an ace. I've never felt good about it, though.
I've never yikesed a post merely because I didn't agree with it - I'd be very busy yikesing in that case.
It seems to be common behaviour in the Forum, though, and it is a reason why I don't bother going there. The last time I did, every second post was censored, the BBC was very sensitive and removed even the slightest criticism of the McCanns (or whatever the name is), even going so far as to remove posts which merely contained the name and nothing else.
People do seem to take offense much more often these days, though, and I wonder why that is.

I've never yikesed anybody for expressing an opinion, as far as I can remember, but I have often yikesed people for breach of copyright.

Thanks for your comments. More food for thought

Rich already mentioned the suggestion to Scouts that they should yikes plagiarised Entries. It wouldn't be my first resort. I think it's generally better to point out that it's not original, identify the source and invite the poster to remove it. Sometimes people just don't realise that's not how this site works. Yikesing might be appropriate where someone pretends writing's their own when it isn't, but assuming such pretence without evidence is going too far IMO.

With advertising, I'd concede that yikesing might be the best solution. Not many people coming here with the express intent of promoting something else are likely to turn into model Researchers.

Whenever yikesing happens, though, it should be with a heavy heart, and a follow-up post explaining why is desirable. Anonymous yikesing, if based on personal offence rather than on an obvious and indisputable rule-breach, is cowardly IMO.

Good point about the Forum Bel. Now I think about it, that's where I've had all my recent knocks. It was a great idea, the Forum, but there's a "Have Your Say" crowd who act pretty boorishly on the general BBC site and the mentality infiltrates here too. People who get their buzz from seeing their own opinions on a screen are just sad, I think. There's so much more to gain from sharing other people's views.

Have been yikesed once for using a bad word. Not in anger. Haven't yikesed anyone, but after behaving rather badly over an entry on punctuation, of all things, I have stayed well away from any controvery.

There's this cartoon posted on an acquaintance's blog with this man hunched over a computer and his partner urging him to come to bed. 'Not now,' says the man, typing furiously, 'There are people on the Internet who are _wrong_.' I'd like to say that's not me, but... There's something about a computer screen that invites the boor in, I reckon.

That's a great cartoon, it made me laugh. I think I could call that man by various names (all of which you'll find in the Forum, amongst others). I don't mind if it stays confined to the Forum, I just stay away form there. I do mind when it spills over to 'Ask', though.

http://xkcd.com/386/

I think I've only ever yikesed or been yikesed for breech of copyright, with one exception when my PS was edited because of a discussion of the racist 'n-word'. (And another time when my PS was taken down entirely quite recently, but that turned out to be a software glitch.)

TRiG.

(Also here from EF.)