h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Conceived in design about six thousand years ago; the Tuscan clergy condemned it as 'an insult to god' in the 11th century; so complete was the ridicule to which it was subject, it's rehabilitation would not approach completion for a further 800 years.

What is "it"?


Unusually for me - there are no klaxons (six thousand years is a lot of ground to cover for forfeits) so have fun guessing.

Do you mean something conceived in 4000 B.C.????



GT

is this the age of the earth that was worked out by some priest who just took all the lists of begats in the bible

For a change Taff, I think you may be on the right track!!!!




GT

GT

check out the score board and you will see from the scores that i have the highest correct answers

GT


(You still haven't found my Earl or Viscount though!!!)

Do you mean something conceived in 4000 B.C?

Yes.

I have three large ? in my underpants - an intelligent thought, but alas no.

For a change Taff, I think you may be on the right track!

No he isn't.

Aren't you glad I was too tired to think of any klaxons?

The clergy declared it an insult to God in the 11th Century...

That wouldn't be forks, would it?

Hellfire and Damnation.

Yes.

Toybox +3

Rehabilitated 800 years later? That would be the 19th century

Speaking of 19th Century, I was told also (by a priest) that originally, the vatican declared trains a 'work of the ' and prohibited religious staff to use them. Apparently though, they never bothered lifting the ban, so technically, clergy still shouldn't use railway.

I never found any independent reference about it however, so it could be apocryphal.

Good grief, I was just about to suggest 'woman' (Eve 6000 years ago, women in theatre (the early Commedia dell'Arte....)

A !

well done Toybox

The ancient human structure - previously featured here on QI - of Catal Hoyuk in Turkey is the source of the first proto-fork, miniature pitchforks, from incidentally where the 'fork' derives the Latin for a farmer's pitchfork was a 'furca'. The forks of Catal Hoyuk are an archaeological mystery. No-one has any idea of their purpose.

It's also from our Latinate imperial friends that the rule of etiquette that those of good breeding would take their food from their plate in a three-fingered grip, little finger and ring-finger were not used. The plebs meanwhile were held to grapple with their food with clenched fists.

The catholic church (who else?) in the 11th century were horrified by the Italian noble-folk had taken to selecting their food from the plate with a table fork not deigning to dirty their fingers. In language that will feel familiar to expounders moral outrage today: it as only human fingers-created by god - that were worthy to touch the bounteous harvest foods - also provided by god - fork users were verging on the sinfully indulgent.

My source reports that in the 12th century, the impiety had not abated, and tells of one Venetian woman rebuked for her "excessive level of refinement" by the local apoplectic clergy. In a perfectly timed coup de grace she died of plague a few days after being denounced from the pulpit. The clergy claimed Gods retribution had been swift and just. Fork users beware!!

The transition across the continent continues however - Thomas Becket brings the fork to England on exile from England encountered forks between 1164 - 70 - introducing the two-tined design. Legend has it fork duels were commonplace upon his return.

European Royalty take up the cause of fork-dom next: Inventories of several European monarchs reveal that jewelled forks - held for the their rarity and novelty value rather than
any practical intent - appear. Edward owned forks crafted from gold and silver; King Charles V of France had his inlaid with precious stones.

The fork continued to be an unwelcome inclusion especially in socialite circles - even in it's native Italy - were a particular worry for men of the 1600s was appearing effeminate and finicky if they employed a fork while dining.

The turning point seems to blur across several centuries.

Thomas Coryat of Odcombe, near Yeovil, in a book titled "Coryat's Curdities Hastily gobbled up in Five Months Travels in France, Savoy, Italy, &c.," published in London, 1611, claims to be one of the first Englishmen to use a fork. We see from his writing that while forks were almost unknown in England, they commonality in Italy was sufficient to deserve comment, and as the author notes they were not unusual in other parts of Europe.

[spelling preserved]

"I observed a custome in all those Italian Cities and Townes through which I passed, that is not used in any other country that I saw in my travels, neither do I thinke that any other nation of Christendome doth use it, but only Italy. The Italian, and also most strangers that are commorant in Italy, doe alwaies, at their meales use a little forke when they cut the meate; for while with their knife, which they hold in one hand, they cut the meate out of the dish, they fasten their forke which they hold in their other hande, upon the same dish, so that whatsoever he be that sitteth in the company of any others at meate, should unadvisedly touch the dish of meate with his fingers, from which all at the table doe cut he will give occasion of offence unto the company as having transgressed the lawes of good manners, insomuch for his error he shall be at least browbeaten, if not reprehended in words. This forme of feeding I understand is generally used in all places of Italy, their forks being for the most part made of yron or steele, and some of silver, but those are used only by gentlemen. The reason of this their curiosity, is because the Italian cannot by any means endure to have his dish touched with fingers, seeing all men's fingers are not alike cleane. Hereupon I myselfe thought good to imitate the Italian fashion by this forked cutting of meate, not only while I was in Italy, but also in Germany, and oftentimes in England.

They tend to crop up in the hands of gentlemen and titled families, The earliest fork known to have been made in England belonged to the Earl of Rutland, is made of silver and was cast during 1632-3. It presently resides in the Victoria and Albert Museum.

Nevertheless despite spreading beyond Italian borders their inclusion at dining tables across Europe of the landed gentry. They remain rare, a European novelty, and despite a growing obsessed with manners that meant an etiquette manual published in 1650 felt it necessary to opine on a kernel of wisodom that had yet to pass into being axiomatic: "Do not attempt to eat soup with a fork" it was still du jour to grasp food from the plate with fingers.

There definitely still seem to "Untensil Non Grata" in the early 1800s - still the rare, effete and effeminate, European affectation of the upper classes and generally undesirable.

The French Revolution in 1794, which supposedly did away with the upper social classes and brought common customs to the fore, the fork then the preserve of luxury and refinement was similarly maligned, however - the link to Germany was it to be it's salvation.

The design up until this point was still the two-pronged variety although The French had begun curling the tines to serve as a primitive scoop, - eating food was a complicated and messy affair, napkins were all the rage as this allowed dropped food to be retrieved from the lap, the scoop effect of the fork was of sufficient interest to pique the renaissance author Montaigne to comment:

I could dine without a tablecloth, but to dine in the German fashion, without a clean napkin, I should find very uncomfortable. I soil them more than the Germans or Italians, as I make very little use of either spoon or fork.

Thus it was the Germans with the relegation of the napkin and their increasing fork usage who ultimately bridge the gap - they had the engineering ability to increase the number of tines on fork - this meant retaining the food during transport to the mouth was more likely to succeed.

Attitudes relax from thereon, forks become a common item table-sets (visitors to inns were obliged to provide their own.) Eating with one's fingers starts to be looked down upon.

Meanwhile the fork's evolution continues in the United States achieving final synthesis with the spoon when Samuel W. Francis is issued US Patent #147,119 in February 1874 for the cutting spoon, later to be universally known as a spork when the New York Times coins the neologism in an article published December 20, 1952

Easy to score this one.


QI - Ungodly.
----------------

Correct (+3)
----------------
Toybox (10)


Elf (+2)
----------------
Clive

Catherine de Médicis (Italian-born Franco-Italian) became Queen of France through her marriage to France's Henri II. Apparently she was one of the main movers in the 'bring your own fork and spoon' fashion.
(Perhaps she didn't trust the guests with the silverware)

Oh, you brought your own silverware (spoon and knife) all through the Middle Ages, too - though a communal cup per 3-5 people was usually provided.

To be honest, I wasn't terribly satisfied with this QI, all my sources (1 book, 1 google book, 2 websites and wiki) were annoyingly hazy on details on a few details, basically winding up with:


..."and that's how we get the modern fork."

Hence my rather rapid sweep through most of the enlightenment.

I'm minded to award points for those tasty morsels, however I'm sticking to my guns and awarding no ad hoc points after closing.

I'll do better next time.

I have 'present day' forks coming from the Byzantine empire and being 'exported' to Italy when a Byzantine princess went to live in Venice upon her marriage. They were found useful for eating pasta (and were as first adopted just for that purpose).

France's Henri III (son of C. de Médicis) used to take one to his favourite restaurant in Paris (which is now know at the Tour d’Argent restaurant).

btw (I know there are no points): there are 2 ways of laying the table in France as regards forks. 'English style' with the prongs pointing upwards and 'French style' with the prongs pointing down.
High society would engrave their forks with their coat of arms... the table being laid to show them to the best advantage.

Ah yes Byzantine did come up. I omitted to mention it because the genesis of the question was the original events in Tuscany, I ended up extending it forward and back to make the history come out and mucked that up by not having the adequate sources to make that work.

I probably should have just left it Tuscany and klaxoned some typical 'sinning' behaviour.

Retrospect, you are a cruel mistress.