A Conversation for Intelligence and Genius
Did I mention you're crazy?
GTBacchus Started conversation Jul 9, 2001
Wow, xyroth. I have just given your University project a look-over. Well, let's get to work.
The entry here on genius is a good start, but it only covers part of the topic. You've basically covered the fact that "there are a number of problems associated with being a genius." Well, ok, but it doesn't suck either .
Right now, if you had headers, etc, your structure would be:
Problems Associated With Genius
Gifted Education
The 'Intelligence Trap'
Discrimination Against Geniuses
( and are a sort of shorthand I just made up for Header and Subheader tags.... do you GuideML?)
Anyway, what would I add to this entry? Hmmm. I'd begin with a little intro defining 'genius' in such a way that most people won't get violently angry with your definition. (tricky!) I'd give some examples of different kinds of genius and then talk about what it's like to be one. The section about being a genius is mostly what you've already written. There should also be a balancing paragraph saying something to the effect that being a genius can be highly rewarding, and can sometimes get one good jobs, satisfying insights, or laid.
I'm not sure how much help you were asking for. Did you just want suggestions, or shall I have a go at writing a draft of this entry, building on what you've got here? Never having been part of a University Project, I just don't know how they work, so please excuse my stupid questions.
Anyway, this project will be a great addition to the guide. Thanks for picking up the torch.
GTB
Did I mention you're crazy?
xyroth Posted Jul 10, 2001
I definately want to keep doing the work myself, but am at least partially out of my depth on some of this stuff. I am desperately in need of feedback, especially about things that need to be added, better linking between the multiple pages, and any glaring inacuracies.
I haven't put in the headers yet, as firstly I had forgotten how to do them, and also getting something here was the most important thing so that there were not multiple small and overlapping projects going through peer review.
I don't want to frame the thing as being about genius, due to the aforementioned problems with the definition, prefering to refer to those of higher IQ and to the "gifted". This avoids most of the problems of having to define genius, with the ensuing bunfight that the whole question would probably start.
Anyway, the definition of genius doesn't seem to me to add anything to the content already there.
As for picking up the torch, after seeing the mess over on the infamous intelligence thread, and seeing that I could hardly do a worse job on some of it (especially this bit) than playboy reporter (he did do some good stuff, but which bits should he get credit for?), I thought that I had better pick it up before someone who would do a worse job got something submitted to peer review, starting the whole problem again.
As regards how university projects work, join the club, I havenot been in one before either, but they are for projects where the whole thing is better done as a set of entries, rather than as a single one, or trying to get multiple ones through peer review.
As I seem to be running this, I intend to try and run it as a benign dictatorship, listening to everyone, trying to produce balanced reviews based upon what they say, but keeping control to try and ensure factual acuracy. I specifically intend to make sure that you can't get the problem in that other thread of a bunch of people saying "this is not only wrong, but is prejudicial as well", and it not being listened to. it will be listened to, and every effort will be made to accomodate those viewpoints, but only if they are prepared to give feedback, saying what is wrong, and why.
feel free to suggest paragraphs, phrasings, extra pages that need writing, better ways of linking them together, and I will endeaver to listen, incorporate the suggestions, do the extensions, and generally try and get this whole thing to the point where there are few negative comments about it.
Did I mention you're crazy?
Monsignore Pizzafunghi Bosselese Posted Nov 18, 2001
I am too dull a person to be able to substantially contribute here .
Hence, just a few minor things:
The first header 'Intelligence and Genius' only repeats the entry's title and isn't necessary (or are you planning to insert some text under it?)
strugle -> struggle
imediately -> immediately
aritrary -> arbitrary
definately -> definitely
intollerence -> intolerence
The sentence 'If the clever person is not too much...' is somewhat beyond my comprehension
Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing etc should get uppercase initials
Educating the Gifted:
It is true that geniuses are suffering from not being challenged according to their skills. Putting them in the same classes as average children leads to boredom, boredom leads to lack of concentration on the lesson currently held, and their grades get worse. (You mention this point in the next para, but it applies to the first one too)
Letting them help their colleagues is one way of giving them a challenge, and another one (which is practised in Germany) is to give them more difficult tasks once they have solved the regular ones (say, while the rest of the class is still busy multiplying 2-digit numbers, they'll have to multiply 5-digit ones).
Sticking them together with their peers has social consequences even if you don't mix 14year old and 19year old ones. They notice that they are 'different', and being kept seperately from the average group contributes to making them kind of 'social outcasts'.
Discrimination Against Geniuses:
'... the gifted often decide to ignore the arbitrary rules..': some examples would be handy. Like, lack of hygiene or failure to follow the socially accepted ways of dressing. Take my professor in physics who wore white socks all the time, even in combination with dark trousers which of course didn't reach down to his shoes. Or think of Albert Einstein's (non-)haircut. [Non-factual comment: perhaps they are deliberately showing that they are different; perhaps they reason that they've got more important things to take care of.]
Geniuses often are 'mentally absent', because they are solving n-dimensional integrals (or things like that) while travelling in a subway where everybody else is taking care to not miss their destination. This can be fatal: The greek mathematician Archimedes didn't take notice of Syracuse being occupied by the Romans and was killed by a soldier whilst drawing sketches of circles in the sand. His last words were 'noli turbare circulos meos', don't disturb those circles of mine.
Did I mention you're crazy?
xyroth Posted Nov 19, 2001
the particuar type of rules that geniuses tend to break are to do with social conventions. This is because the genuis can see that the conventions are usually crap and badly thought out.
The problem with this is that there is a danger to me from your friends and to you from my friends, but we are both safe from our own friends.
To quote the boomtown rats, "watch out for the normal people, there's more of them than there's of you".
Did I mention you're crazy?
Gullibility Personified Posted Jan 16, 2002
I'm not a genius, but I am frequently bored at school, because of the slow, often lethargic, progression through work. If my experience is on the way to genius, perhaps a genius could be described as one whose mind simply makes the connections in a given situation (be it academic or social) more quickly than those around him or her (provided he isn't at a mensa conference!). You say something similar in the entry, but perhaps clarification would be useful?
GP
Did I mention you're crazy?
Pimms Posted Aug 5, 2003
Hi xyroth
twisting the conversation title slightly - genius can be interpreted as madness, which can be another problem for the genius (thinking of John Forbes Nash A1073206)
I'll try and give you some feedback on some bits of this project in the next few weeks, since it seems a bit starved of comment. First I need to remind myself of what I used to know - I did a project at university on Raven's Matrices (a psychometric test), and looked at differences between mathematicians and non-mathematicians in their mathematical strategies.
Pimms
Did I mention you're crazy?
xyroth Posted Aug 7, 2003
Yes pimms, you are right, it is a bit starved of comment.
in fact I have been trying to work it into shape since before lekz left (hence the author credit on a lot of the stuff).
there is a connection between high intelligence and madness, but not the one most people think of.
most "ordinary people" have a rather tight set of definitions about the world. most people who are more creative or intelligent are much more flexible with how they see the world.
This flexibility gives them a massive advantage, because they can exploit this different world view to get a personal gain. However it also means that the sort of reality checks that most people have on their views are much looser. this makes them more prone to getting into very funny patterns of thought which can seriously cause you problems.
If you can come up with a better title for this, I would really find that helpfull, as the current title has expectations attached which are not ideal.
Key: Complain about this post
Did I mention you're crazy?
More Conversations for Intelligence and Genius
Write an Entry
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a wholly remarkable book. It has been compiled and recompiled many times and under many different editorships. It contains contributions from countless numbers of travellers and researchers."