h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Yes- I know how you feel, Itai...

I just wanted to remind J that in 1967 there was war going on here... And 5 weeks in Isael?! Really?!!! I'm impressed!

Anyway- I doubt if it's anybody's FAULT, and it doesn't really matter. I know everybody loved the IRA, and I'm guessing there's no entry here about them. Everybody looks like Gandhi, being filmed sitting on the earth and crying.

I'm unsubscribing this thread- if nothing else, I won't have to feel ashamed of things former governments did, or didn't.
As I keep saying- do what you want. I really don't care.

Bye
Yael/ Lady Elly

1. As I said, I disagree with the use of violence. I do however understand the despair that can be produced by powerlessness, and the temptations of extreme actions once despair has taken hold.
My deepest condolences go to all those who have suffered hurt and loss in reent months.

2. I would like to correct some bias in what I just wrote, namely the description of the violence under the British mandate. I have no evidence to suggest that the Jewish settlers started it. It would perhaps be better to say that tensions between residents and settlers escalated, then turned into escalating violence. I think that trying to decide who started it would at this point be impossible and anyway unhelpful.

3. It is an interesting point to note that the jewish inhabitants of palestine previous to the second world war would have considered themselves to be arab. 'Arab', was the ethnic group that had inhabited that area for centuries, and there were christian arabs, muslim arabs, and yes, jewish arabs. That is a historically inconvenient fact to remember though.

The point of my story about the village was not to belittle or deny the circumstances in which it was destroyed. My point was that the lying by Israeli authorities about what had happened there was utterly blatant, and struck me as very sinister.
One would expect the Jewish people to be keen on historical accuracy, for reasons too obvious to go into.

J

1. It is more than months, and thank you for your condolences. I still can't understand such actions as suacide actions hutring teenagers, or a mother sending her 12 year old kid to blow up on an Israeli post (and many other examples)...

2. Some of the bias is corrected, I'm too sick of it all at the moment to start correcting things.
I hope soon someone will start rewriting the article, and I will then try and contribute in the name of accuracy (as I see it of course).

3. I do not know th village on which you speak, just know that:

1- usually, it is not the israeli goverment that puts on this kind of sigs, but one of 2 a companies that are the ones in charge of natural resorts, signing historicaly and nationally significent places, and national parks.

2- I do not belive ant inaccuriceis are intentional. Such thing would be hard to belive about Israel and jews, for reasons too obvious to mention.

3- Jews in Israel weren't called Arab. as I mentioned earlier in this discussion, both Arab(muslim and christian) and jews that lived in Israel were caled Palestinians. After the decleration of independance to Israel by the UN, Jewish palestinians became Israeli, and so did a lot of Arab palestinians. Only ones that didn't want to be equal citicens of Israel, became what is now called "Palestinians".

There are Israeli Arabs of equal rights (they don't serve in the Army though)

There are a lot of muslim Arabs, less christian Arabs, and much less hindu Arabs, And there were (and probably are some left) jewish arabs in Maroko, Parsia, Tunisia and some other north african countries, also there were in Egypt and Iraq.
Most Jewish Arabs came to live in Israel once it was declared though.

Peace,

Dancer

How do you contribute in the name of accuracy 'as you see it'? (rhetorical question)

Note - the Buddha is not a deity...

I can't help but see the parallels between Israel and Cyprus - where I lived for a couple of years. An unbiased account of that problem is equally difficult (impossible) to find, and the USA and UK look equally guilty. The position twenty years ago was just as brutal as that in Israel today - perhaps more so. Yet the 'green line' has held for many years now, and some even hold out hopes of reunion and peace on the island. There is always hope...

Here's to a hope for peace and reconciliation, both paties must want it for it to work.

Why, and I ask again why, can't Israel agree to third party peace keepers being deployed to aid this?

Z.

Hi, Z.

I was going to reply to your posting in my space, then thougt it better to post it here, as I've been absent from this conversation for two days and feel responsible for having started it.

I would very much like to contribute, but at the current state of things it's probably better to forget the entry I submitted and start creating a new one. I don't dare to take this in charge because of a lack of time and language abilities, though I'm expecting for someone to start a new entry, a project or anything on this matter, then I'll be able to do part of the work. Controversy is OK, just think it's useless in this case. Nobody is going to make nobody think like themselves; it's time to stop arguing and start working on some basis that everyone could approve.

As Milorad Pavic wrote in his book 'Dictionary of the Khazars', you "cannot get more out of the truth than what you put into it."

Let's please find a way to work together on the issue. It would be a shame to leave it after all the thinking, words and emotions everybody has brought here. This is a chance to do a little effort in the direction of peace; even if the only way is to write some separated histories, yet it'd be something.

I'd try to post to this conversation as often as possible. I've been reading it every day, it's just that it takes me a long time to express myself in English.

Ini.

I thought that you were quite gracious in your response Ini. I also would like clarification, did you want this article to be taken over by someone else with the goal of a university project in mind?

I thought it was a good article. I thought it was worth editing it. I thought it didn't need much corrections. But, after I've seen its effects on part of the community, I've changed my mind. Now I think it's useless to insist on editing it. I've made a proposal in case anyone wants to take it, as I'm not the right person, and offered my help. That's all.

No, I'm not trying to get rid of it, in case you mean it.

Ini.

The complaint with the article wasn't so much that it needed to be edited as it needed to be written from an un-bias perspective.

Has someone taken on the job of rewriting this article?

I messaged it's creator, but didn't get an answer yet.

My guess it was a one time thing - the resercher went in, made this post and left never to be seen again.

It makes you suspicious that it is palestinian propoganda thing, but it makes you like that only if you are paranoid like me (or maybe like marvin).

Peace,

Dancer.

The job of rewriting is open to any h2g2 researcher - but if y'all sit around waiting for someone else to do it, it'll never get done...

Editorial, Gulf Today, United Arab Emirates (Published sometime between May 14 and May 24)

Today, we find nearly 2.5 million Palestinians held hostage in the West Bank and Gaza Strip against the guns of a country which boasts itself as one of the top military powers of the world. But when a Palestinian boy throws stones at Jews who have illegally set up homes in his homeland, it is terror. When the Israelis armed to the teeth rampage through Palestinian communities it becomes legitimate measures to defend themselves ... World condemnation of Israeli practices seem like lines drawn in flowing water under the protective umbrella offered by the world's sole supervisor ... For the Palestinian boy who tries in vain to make enough for food by collecting empty aluminium cans for recycling, the future holds out nothing but life in misery, agony and suffering. For him, a better option is to strap explosives around the waist and blow himself up among Israelis with the hope that his life would not have been in vain if his death nudged the Palestinian struggle a wee bit forward.

Loony,

extremely well put, desparation causes desperate measures to be taken, and only when both sides want peace will peace be given a chance!



Z.

I can answer this, There's a lot I can answer here, but I won't I'm tired of it. I don't know if I want to be a part of this discussion.

I will answer it though, because It steams in my veins:

The people in Gaza are locked there because they commit these crimes.
Palestine is the "country" that offers them no future. In Israel they had jobs. When they didn't do terror acts they were allowed in and did well.

There are 2 Arab milioners who live in a village 2 kilometers from my parent's house. they are from a quiet village, so they are allowed to live as equals because they are not likely to explode. So they worked hard and now have a chain of resturants and also millions of dollars.

It is a matter of cause and effect. You can show it either way, we made them poor by locking them, or they became poor because they were not allowed to work because they did horrible terrorist acts?

Gaza in some parts is the most crouded place in the world. All of the areas in the palestine territories offer verry little finantial bases. Palestine is run on the teaching of hate to the kids, not on the creation of future and teaching them to get better in things that have future instead of terror.

I do agree that there shouldn't be any Israeli towns in there though, and in that the arabs are right, but the Israeli public is devided in the matter. BUT!!! I was there as a soldier.
The Israelis in these places (I don't know how to call them. they are called "Hitnachluyot" which means in hebrew something like "Sattlements") are working hard and earning money well. Actually they are the income source for a lot of the arabs in their area (or so they were until a few months ago. since then, violance became so strong that they can't rely even on Arabs who worked for them n the last 14 years).

Peace,

Dancer

Thanx for that dancer!

But, I still want to here from the palestinian side, before I can consider doing this matter 'justice' by writing an article.

Z.

I contacted the writer 6 days ago, him being the only palestinian resercher (persumably - were not sure of that even) I know of.

Got no responce though.
We can use the noticeboard to post "Looking for a palestinian researcher". I don't know if it will work, but it'll be nice to use her board for something.

If you don't know of the board, go see it it's a nice experiment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/U147915
check it out.

Peace,

Dancer

You can try looking at the media on both sides - the Palestine Times is online, as is the Israeli Post.

Thanx St Emily I look there when I got some time, bit busy at the moment!

And I'll check out the noticeboard likewise dancer

Z.