A Conversation for Christians on H2G2

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Post 21

Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here

The Pope, in a recent sadly under-reported announcment, has restructured heaven,

I quote - "It is not a physical place amongst the clouds, but a living relationship with the Holy Trinity."

I'm pleased he cleared that up.

Strangly there was no mention of what help will be offered to the redundant angels as they join the world's growing mass of displaced people

The Pope has closed Hell

No brimstone. No flames. No horned imps poking you with pitchforks. No maggots consuming your vital organs. No dunking in tubs of evil-smelling stuff.

The images of Hell as presented to us in the bible must be correctly interpreted. "More than a physical place, hell is the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God," the Pope was recently reported as saying.

Alas he said it in Polish and most of the world could not understand a word of his speech.


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Post 22

Peregrin

smiley - bigeyes

I'm not quite sure on the Pope... although I view Catholics as Christians like myself, some of the schemes seem rather at odds with the Bible. Like the fact that the Vatican does not officially admit that the Inquisition ever happened. And the whole 'infallible Pope' thing, even though the Bible states quite clearly that no human is infallible except Jesus. And the whole praying to 'saints' confuses me to - it seems nothing more than idolotary (sp?).

But then I'm not perfect either smiley - winkeye


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Post 23

Bagpuss

I think that's a bit unfair about the Saints thing, though perhaps praying to them rather than direct to God is like putting up a barrier. I'm never quite sure what Anglicans are supposed to think of saints, after all, most (all?) of the Churches are named after them, but other than that, they get pretty well ignored.


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Post 24

Peregrin

Well, I think the Anglicans view saints as examples to be followed. Hench naming churches after them. Certainly they shouldn't be ignored, but neither should they be concentrated on rather than looking to the more important issues (God and Jesus, for example).

The Bible says that Jesus is our intermediary to God - because we (as sinners) cannot possibly relate directly to God (as he is perfect). But Jesus died for our sins so that we can appeal to God, through him.

Or something like that smiley - smiley


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Post 25

Bagpuss

Yeah, confuses me. I know a few theologians who could explain it, but they usually end up blathering on about some obscure 16th century German Bishop, with whom they disagree. Someone tried to explain transubstantiation and consubstantiation to me recently, but the only thing I learnt was that there's another term ("true presence" or something), which is different from both, but quite similar really.


I was God's PR man

Post 26

Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here

Some weeks ago in this forumI professed my non-belief in God. It may therefore surprise you to learn that I was once God's PR man in New Zealand.

It all began when I was approached by the Churches Broadcasting Commission, an ecumenical body charged with improving God's image in New Zealand through the media of radio and television. They were in need of a "Communications Officer".

I explained that I was not the right man for the job, since I didn't believe in God. They said it didn't matter, God believed in me, and anyway it was a good idea to have someone working for you who knew what the other side thought. A sort of divine undercover agent. The pay was modest, but included a golden handshake in the form of a post-dated cheque for eternity in Heaven, so I signed up for a year. I soon regretted it. God is a difficult client. Thinks He knows it all. So every idea you came up with met with the same response: "It'll never work." "But, God, how do you know it'll never work, if you haven't tried it?" "Because I'm omniscient, dummy." "Then how come your ratings are in the margin of error?"

That always got Her mad, and you'd get home to find plagues of frogs on the lawn and your family covered in boils. And of course it had to be, "Yes God, no God, three bags full, God." All kow-towing and forelock-tugging. I draw the line at worshipping the client. As I explained, "My job is to make you look good, I don't have to adore you as well." Bad call - locusts in the ensuite and it hailed over the vege garden for a month and ruined the tomatoes.

And then there were the Celestial PR Committee strategy meetings. Everybody was there: God, of course. And the 2IC. (Quite a nice bloke actually. Good sense of humour. Halfway through your cappuccino you'd find it'd been turned into Baileys Irish Cream.) Assorted disciples. Saint Peter on the door. John the Baptist, scaring the living daylights out of everybody by putting his head on your chair just before you sat down. Charlton Heston. God knows what he was doing there. "What's Charlton Heston doing here?" I asked John the Baptist's head. "God knows." Turned out he was there for a book signing.

Who else? Satan. (It was supposed to be Santa, but the angel who sends out the invites is dyslexic.) The Grim Reaper, endlessly doing his knock-knock joke: "Knock knock. Who's there? Death. Death wh... [sound of person dropping dead]. " He stole it from Rowan Atkinson. Not all that funny really, but when the Reaper tells a joke, you laugh. The Holy Ghost was there, too, but you never saw him.

Anyway, you can imagine what these meetings were like. Total chaos. And every positive suggestion rubbished. "The beard has to go," I said. "It's ageing and doesn't look good on your woman days." But, no, the beard had to stay. And the sandals and the nightie. "How about a photo opportunity? Kiss a few babies at Foodtown? Quick miracle at a political party conference - turn them all into nice people. Maybe a guest spot on a garden show." Might as well have saved my breath. God will not make a public appearance. Not company policy. "No man hath seen God." All this bureaucratic stuff.

Satan suggested a press statement, which seemed a good idea to me. God said they'd already put out a press statement and it didn't get a mention in any of the liberal rags. So he'd cursed that lot for eternity.

Though I approved of the sentiment, I could understand why so many of the media had turned it down. Who's going to print a 2000- page press statement with subheads such as Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, four different versions of the same story about the 2IC, a whole list of things you aren't allowed to do (that everyone wants to do) - and, worst, there wasn't a contact person for further information. I mean, it breaks every rule in the PR book.

"Maybe we could ease off on the sex laws," Charlton Heston suggested. "They're terribly unpopular and a bit silly. I mean, eternal damnation just for lusting after a woman in your heart!" John the Baptist vetoed the idea. No surprise there. He's been a misogynist since the Salome incident.

"What we need is a slogan," I suggested at one of the meetings. "Something attention-grabbing - "If you covet your neighbour's ass, you're a bloody idiot."' And what do we get? "Repent, for the end is nigh!" The Reaper liked that.

I gave the job up after a year. My heart wasn't in it. I'm told they had NZ politician Jim Anderton handling the account for a while, but it didn't work out too well. Apparently, Jim made God feel inferior. Never a good idea with the client.

Parts of this yarn are true and parts aren't. You can decide which. But I'll give you a clue - there is a Churches Broadcasting Commission and I was their Communications Officer for a short while. I quite enjoyed the job. It was a challenge and the people were really neat. I've still got the post-dated cheque for eternity in Heaven, but I'm expecting it to bounce.


I was God's PR man

Post 27

Peregrin

Reminds me of the Anglican church in England, who have been known on occasion to recruit non-believers as priests.

I'm a believer in The Church, not the church. If that makes sense smiley - tongueout


I was God's PR man

Post 28

Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here

The Church is a drinking establishment situated in a warehouse in London. It is frequented by large numbers of young Aussies, Kiwis and South Africans on Sundays. With loud music playing in the background, the weekly wet-T-Shirt competitions are enormously popular.

Peregrin, do you put on a make-believe New Zealand accent when you attend? smiley - bigeyes


I was God's PR man

Post 29

Peregrin

I'm afraid I haven't been, but I hear the karoake is highly recommended. The Pope's rendition of 'Spice World' is a favourite on Friday nights.

Did you hear that the Catholic Church has been bought out by Microsoft?


I was God's PR man

Post 30

Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here

Are you sure its not the other round? Think of the potential for control of the masses...


I was God's PR man

Post 31

Peregrin

Well, that's still the underlying concept smiley - bigeyes

Microsoft plan on a major 'NetChurch' phenomonen. Online services are predicted to be vastly popular among todays young catholics, many of who do not have time to attend church regularly. Sermons from famous personalities will be broadcast over the internet, and particularly to mobile phones and other portable gadgets, many of which will be sold for the purpose. Philips and BT Cellnet have already unveiled plans for mobile phones engraved with a portrait of the virgin Mary, individually blessed via webphone by a genuine priest.

Online prayer and confessions are also expected to be popular. 'The great advantage of these schemes,' the Vatican press officer commented, 'is that they fit in with everyday life. As soon as you have commited a sin, you can use a WAP-enabled religious icon to connect to a virtual priest.'


I was God's PR man

Post 32

Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here

Fascinating. It also has the added bonus of keeping the priests away from the choir boys I suppose.


I was God's PR man

Post 33

Peregrin

Oh, there's chat rooms for that.


oooh new discussion

Post 34

Anna

I agree that its been a bit quiet around here. Last time I came in here (about 6 weeks ago) and there was nothing going on - how about this for a discussion...

- Was it right for those siamese twins to be seperated? - Effectivly killing Mary to save Jodie or should they have been left how they were originally created? answers please... smiley - smiley


oooh new discussion

Post 35

Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here

In the words of a 30-year-old American woman who survived the same operation - "Of course the doctors made the right decision. The alternative was to have both babies die."

Many people have been killed and maimed in the name of religion. Luckily Jodie escaped from the zealots who place pain and suffering above human dignity.


oooh new discussion

Post 36

Peregrin

I agree with the decision that one should be saved instead of both dying, which is what happened. The problem I have with the situation is that the parents strongly opposed this decision, but were allowed no say in the matter. What made it even worse is that the parents travelled to the UK from an eastern European country where they could not have had the same level of care as here, for the birth. If they had stayed there it's unlikely that either of the twins would have survived. But they expected to be allowed to make their own decisions in the UK, and were sorely disappointed. And now (unless somebody helps with funding) they'll have to go back to their country with a weak disabled child to care for (unless it's gone up for foster parents or something - I don't know what the latest is).

I suspect that funding will come from somewhere, because the case has been so well covered by the media. The problem I have with that is that there are plenty more childbirth problems in the UK, but the solutions are underfunded, because the media don't care about these 'boring' cases. I bet there is a much, much higher chance of somebody coming forward to adopt the surviving twin than any of the other abandoned/disabled babies in the UK.


oooh new discussion

Post 37

James Casey

Well, this is some time after the event and the last posting, but anyway...

I think that I agree that it was the right decision - but I'm sorry that I think that, and like everyone, I'm sorry it had to happen. What sways my thinking is the thought that I would take a human life if that life was threatening the life of another. For example, someone trying to kill me or those close to me; and the only line of defence was their death.

This isn't quite the same, but it's close enough, I feel. So you have to kill the one who wouldn't survive. I'm often quite horrified by the ways science is going, but the sooner we get technology that can get us out of moral quagmires like this one, the better.

What was a little sad too was the way the parents sold the story...but maybe they really needed the money.


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