h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

In our modern whirled the notions of copyright,
proprietorial rights, trademarks and patents
are the basis of our economy.

Every time someone buys a Beatles record, a Terry
Pratchett novel or puts a Mickey Mouse on their
product, a fee or royalty is paid for the right
to use someone else's intellectual property.

So how much do we owe Greece?

They gave us Platonic relationships, Epicurean delights,
Corinthian leather, Doric columns, Socratic dialogues,
Spartan environments and Pyrrhic victories.

They created the scientific method and a basic understanding
that physics and chemistry can be manipulated to develop new
technologies. Euclid should be getting a residual royalty fee
every time a satellite goes into orbit.

Their ideas and insights are the basis of modern civilisation.

Shouldn't all musicians give them a percentage of earnings
for inventing the chromatic scale?

How much do playwrights and screenwriters owe them for
creating the theatre? Hollywood owes them Big Time.

And don't you think we ought to find some meaningful way
to thank them for Democracy?


~ ~
HtH

Of course, democracy has been part of various political systems all over the world, to a greater or lesser extent, going back for millennia. Perhaps we actually overestimate Greece's contribution - our culture does tend to fixate over ancient Greece and Rome when looking at a substantial chunk of the past.

And what about the Persians!

Democracy... how long have women had the vote? Wasn't democracy something westerners invented because they'd forgotten who to manage themselves?

I do think you have point though ~ ~.

Only since 1971 in Switzerland...1984 in Liechtenstein.

- in NZ... (cue kea)

You have a few good points there (, I think I know you, HtheH. Stop fooling around & get yourself properly back here)

but didn't they also give us self-centred, selfish, grab-a-credit politicians? Though again they were (possibly?) not the first

Off the top of my head... 1893? The centenary was in the early 90s, might have been 92 actually.

Yep. Granted 19 September 1893. First vote 28 November that year.
There is (well, was) a commemorative statue outside (I think) the Arts Centre (old uni - lovely building, that was).

Haven't kept up with the Arts Centre. Is is being demolished?

"All 23 Arts Centre heritage buildings received significant damage in the earthquake and its subsequent aftershocks, and all have been issued with a red “Unsafe” placard." (March 2011)

I've heard talk of billions to rebuild. Along with the Cathedral it was iconic of Chch.

Current status? as far as I'm aware, nothing since then. It is, after all, of necessity a little way down the list.

Very sad that. I hope they get to save some of that stone and native timbers.

If anything, Greece owe US for storing the Elgin Marbles for all these years.

This post has been removed.

Mr603 tells a great Truth.
There is no doubt the Elgin marbles have been saved
by being securely stored in British vaults. They never
would have survived the past century had they been left
where they were. Hitler, Hollywood, tourists or terrorists
woulda got 'em.

Taff's point about sheltering the last Greek prince
is also well taken.

Cheers,

~ ~
HtH

No one has mentioned the Olympic Games.

Every two years the whirled spend billions of dollars
on winter and summer games that bear the name and spirit
of the Greek city where the idea that athletics could serve
as a substitute for warfare was first established.

But does Greece get a part of this multi-billion dollar action?
Outrageously, no.

It's not just a violation of trademark and branding laws to use
the name Olympic Games, there is also the whole question of the
intent and the methodology of competitors representing various
geo-political entities.

Modern Greek debt could be wiped out in less than a decade with
a fair and equitable royalty paid by the IOC for using the brand name
and by each participating nation based on a head count of the young
athletes they send to these games instead of to war.

~ ~
HtH

Course, there again, the modern Olympics is a French invention. Inspired by a rose-tinted view of Ancient Greece, no doubt, but still.

Every medical doctor in the whirled subscribes
to the Hippocratic Oath.

They should be paying an annual subscription fee,
perhaps just a few dollars. But there are millions
of doctors in a whirled with 7 billion patients.

Again these fees could clear Greece's modern debt
within a decade.

~ ~
HtH

When we're totting up the balance sheet, how much would Fire Services and injured parties the world over stand to gain, if they were to sue over the antics of that smart-arse Prometheus? Just look at the trouble he caused.

Let me hasten to assure everyone that I have no
rose-tinted view of Classical Greece. (And even
less love for the Romans.)

I am on record here-abouts (under the name ~jwf~) as
being almost violently opposed to and contemptuous of
the Greco-Roman contagion of North-European cultures.

Like James Joyce, I see Greco-Roman influences as the
pollution and the poison of my cultural heritage.

However, my argument here is not to praise the insidious
mind-frack imposed on us by Mediterranean societies over
the past two and a half thousand years. I rail against the
blind contradiction that our current whirled economy is
now largely based upon fees and royalties paid to holders
of patents and copyrights; and yet, we refuse to acknowledge
the intellectual and proprietorial rights of ancient Greece.

The irony is that the global economy could fail because of
the Greek debt crisis. How can this happen in a whirled where
all trade and marketing involves a percentage fee being paid
for use rights to ideas and innovations when almost all our
modern ideas and innovations are founded on principles, insights,
methods and precedents established or refined by ancient Greeks.

To deny fair compensation for their foundational contributions
could undermine everything we currently enjoy. Will we be hoist
on our own petard? Will we really shoot ourselves in the feet
for a few percentage points of our modern economies?


~ ~
HtH

I'm not sure how far back you can retrospectively claim intellectual property though.

In NZ there is debate about the Te Rauparaha haka, the haka that's usually used by the All Black rugby team. That haka was created by Te Rauparaha before Europeans came here. It belongs to Ngati Toa, a Maori tribe. They've tried to claim some ownership under Western models and that's caused some controversy. Likewise, at the time that western IP models allow for control of genetic material from native plants, or even native people, and control of names (there is a Maori name that can't be used commercially in Germany because it's been trademarked there), those same models are being denied to Maori to protect their own interests.

So, I think rather than paying the Greeks for something from so long ago (not saying that shouldn't happen), we should be looking at what intellectual property is in the first place. If it's solely a device to enable certain kinds of privieged commerce, then I think we all do a disservice.

Hairy the Horse, your idea is full of good will, but...
the greek debt can´t be paid. The sucesive bailouts or loans are part of a cynical game that is swollening the debt of many countries at the expenses of their citizens´rights and for the benefit of that entity called The Market. The greedy beast will be squeezing Greek until the country starts to sell patrimony at sale prices.

Did you watch that guy in The City of London a few weeks ago, who in an act of cynism at the BBC said that the world was ruled by Goldman and Sachs? he also said that was excited with this crisis, etc. A complete dyc.

Do you know that the firm Goldman and Sachs helped the former conservative greek goverment to fake important economic documents?

Do you know that the new president of the European Bank was vicepresident in Goldman and Sachs those days of the forgery?

Greece shouldn´t have entered the Eu to start with. But it seems some saw great bussiness in a country where corruption is the highest in Europe.

I may be wrong about the greek debt, I don´t know how all this mess works, but just by following the news, you get a pretty gloomy picture about Greece, and the rest of us...