h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

this is an answer to the Q in post 38? {why crusades and suchlike} sure - go for it.

Okay, first of all, I'm really new to h2g2, and I didn't know that my little contribution would appear so far after the message to which I was referring. Oops! When I saw where it appeared, I just knew how out of place it was, since the conversation had since continued. Sorry!
Secondly, if the priest guy had had enough guts to say it, I think he was thinking something along the lines that the Crusaders weren't really Christians, even though they were "fighting" for their God and their faith. True Christians are supposed to follow the teachings of Christ, who doesn't say go out kill all those who don't agree with you. Actually, he says to "shake the dust of your feet" and move on (Matt 10:14). So, the Crusades is a perfect example of men fighting not for the will of God, but for their own glory. I hope that helps clarify it a little bit.
(Oh, by the way, part of the reason I joined h2g2 was because I read some of your past discussions, and it bothered me that the true Christian perspective wasn't represented at all. I promise (emphasize that) not to push my faith or anything on you at all. I just wanted you to really know what it is you're arguing against.)
Rebecca

Hmm, Peter the apostle kills a married couple because they´re not giving him all their money. Is that the teachings of Jesus? Then what was wrong with the crusades?

Hmm, think I got misinterpreted there-probably my fault.
I wasn't knocking Christianity-any belief structure that lasts 2000 years has to have something going for it!
What I meant was that that Christianity has given many people the courage and strength to get through enormous hardships, both in private and public life-to simply write it off as cant and fear seems to wilfully ignore the comfort it obviously brings to those who do believe.
We all have ways of dealing the mundaneity of real life, so why single Christians out for scorn?

Ah, that's an interesting passage. I really don't understand it myself yet; maybe I never will. First of all, Peter didn't kill Ananias and Sapphira; God did. As far as I know (which, granted, isn't much- I could and might be wrong) Christians do not have the power to kill. At least not with spiritual means. We could, of course, take a knife and stab somebody. If we did that we wouldn't be Christians, but that's a whole other topic. Anyways, Jesus came to heal and bring people back to life; I can't think of one instance in His ministry where He killed somebody. Okay. Secondly, this passage is a far cry from the Crusades. These (in Acts) are really new Christians, and they claimed to be Christians, yet they lied to God about how much they were giving Him. He wouldn't have minded if they kept some back; but since another couple gave all they had, Ananias and Sapphira decided they had to too, and were doing it for their own glory, not for the reasons they should have had. The Crusades, like this couple, were about self-glorification. They wanted to "earn" their way into heaven. The Jews and Muslims and everybody else they were fighting/killing weren't saved, and didn't claim to be, like the Acts couple. Now, I don't know why God would choose to use Ananias and Sapphira as an example like this- we paint Him as a loving and benevolent God, and then He goes and does this. But if we understood everything God did, then what would be the point of faith or belief?
Hope this helps clarify some things!
Rebecca

I can't believe you can justify that episode. Ananias and Sapphira don't have to give away everything they own. He sold his field, kept some of the money, and gave the rest to Peter. WAnd rather than being lauded for their generous donation, they have to pay for their "sin" with their lives. Anyone who doesn't find this episode unjust scares me... just keep your distance, please... I have a gun...

Since I don't think anyone has said the entirety of this:

"God is dead" - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead" - God
"Nietzsche is God" - the Dead

3

JOTD: Unix, MS-DOS and Windows NT (also known as the Good, the Bad and the Ugly)

"Who is this God person anyway?" Douglas Adams

100 Watt Warlock: Sun Tzu's philosophical studies are still applicable to today's world. He wrote his work for somewhere around four thousand years ago. War still sucks though. Sun Tzu wrote "The Art of War".

Why single out Christianity for scorn? Easy targets. Seriously? Christianity is the one huge religion close to us westerners. Were there more arabs hanging around, I'm sure Islam would get it's fair shar of slamming. And Christianity is easy to scorn. It has caused much harm (and much good) and is so extremely diversified that allthough a christian can allways defend him or herself with the Bible, an Atheist can allways slam God with other parts of the Bible. It's a great book that way.

But Mostly Harmless is right. There really should be a more serious discussion leading to understanding and tolerance, rather than the Jesusbashisng we all love so much. Srious is often boring, but it causes less hurt, more understaning, and in the end, is the best thing. (And when we all love and respect eachother, we can go back to ridicule 'cause then noone will be hurt). I, however, can not initiate any serious religios debate. Good luck.

JAR

JAR: I wouldn't want anybody to take me too seriously, especially here.
Yes, you're right that Sun Tzu still works in todays world, as do any number of other ancient philosophies, of which Christianity is merely the most prominent in the 21st century Western-centric world. It isn't perfect, and I tend to side with the characters in that wonderful film, Dogma-It's a great idea, but it got really badly translated along the way...
Tolerance and humour go hand-in-hand, as far as I'm concerned-the first thing you have to learn to laugh at is yourself. Once you've worked out that you yourself are the most absurd thing in the world, then you have the right to laugh at others.

(Somehow we need to convey this to the Israeli and Palestinian.)

Yes, you are right of course, but some people have a really hard time laughing. What do we do with them?

Recently a member of the Norwegian Commission of Ethical Values (A strange political move by leaders about to loose the publics faith) was revealed. He apparently was in favor of mutilating (circumcising [sp?]) young girls (babies) in the name of God. (Allah, the man was moslem) I don't think we can get him to laugh any time soon...

Colonal Sellers, Threatening some one with a gun is NEVER funny, even if you put a behind it. There is way to much hatred and violence in the world as is and we don't need your insipid comments to add to them.

Religion may be a comfort
to many people. It may keep
people on morally good roads
(if u except morals as existent)
It may make people happy.
E. T. C. E. T. C.
But none of this changes the
fact that all beliefs in a god
with a personality (i.e.
Christianity, Muslim etc)
are ridiculous they are silly
like believing in fairies or
Father X-mass.
It makes little sense to try and
have serious discussions about
thinks so silly!

Jk

This post has been removed.

Sorry
dont worry
i was only
joking course
theres a
father x-mass.

Jk

JK,

"It makes little sense to try and
have serious discussions about
thinks so silly!"

Then why are you even posting here? ARE you SILLY and if you are why should anyone listen to what you are saying?

You are not promoting tolerance or understanding. The only thing you are promoting is ignorance,intolerance, and hatered. The qualities of a good nazi.

Mostly

Actually, you may need to reread the story (Acts 5:1-11). Okay. In Acts 4:56, Joseph sold a field and gave all the money to Peter and the apostles. Although it doesn't say precisely, we can infer that this was a nice thing to do, and Joseph did it because of his love for his brothers/sisters in Christ. Now, when Ananias sold his field, he kept back a portion for himself. That was okay: God only really asks as much as you're willing and able to give. He doesn't want to force you to offer what you have to Him. But Ananias's problem was that he pretended that he was giving *all* the money he got from his field to God. How do we know this? Look at Acts 5:2 and 8. "With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself..." Later, when Peter asked if this was the amount the field was sold for, she *lied* to both him *and* God: "'Yes, she said, 'that is the price.'" Again, I repeat myself, I don't understand *why* God used this couple to get his point across, or why he even had to kill them! There are things we as humans aren't meant to understand about God. But that shouldn't keep us from trying. And, I agree, it would be a lot easier if the Bible would just say everything He wants us to understand. But it doesn't. It's like any great work of literature: there are things you only understand if you use a little interpretation and really try to get it.

This may be your opinion, and I won't bash it- but that doesn't give you the right to bash my beliefs. It may not be a serious thing to you, but it is to me. If we're talking about acceptance and understanding here, like it seems we are, you need to be a little more respectful of how others think. I understand how you might think that believing in fairies is ridiculus, or even Father Christmas (sorry Niz), but I'm puzzled as to why you would categorize the Gods of Christianity and Islam and Judaism in the same group. Seems to me that if millions of people can believe in them all their lives for thousands of years, either it's a pretty convincing hoax, or maybe you just don't get it.

So is there or isn't there....ohhhh I'm confused...Argggh
*rolls up into faetus position. Rocks silently*

Mostly:
You are comparing a h2g2 poster with the nazis. I shall now invoke Godwin's Law (http://www.h2g2.com/A381656) and ask you to accept your loss...

Xanthia - *adjusts badge saying "evil net cop"*