h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

There's another thing. My ex-chap prefers text messages and emails to straightforward phone calls, because text has a solidity to it and a (perceived) certainty of meaning. Phone calls, on the other hand, can rely on tone of voice to some extent - and he doesn't always pick the tone accurately so sometimes a verbal message gets lost. He's OK with face-to-face conversation, which is a bonus.

Thanks everyone, all really helpful.

Ictoan, there's definitely other personality issues involved as well. He had a formatively bad childhood and is one of those brilliant people that struggles to cope in the world but it doesn't look like that. I think this other stuff just makes it even more complicated.


Effers, thanks, getting the anger sorted seems important to me too, esp before I talk to either of them.


I like the idea of explaining to him logically and literally how and why what he does affects me. I'm just concerned because I think he has an attitude about my own illness/disability and I have pretty much zero tolerance for prejudice about that at the moment.


>>OK, why did you cancel your previous appointment? <<

GB, his son actually made arrangements with the mutual friend to spend time with her kids. She didn't realise this include our Aspie friend. That's why those arrangements got so crazymaking because I had to try and figure out what was going on by txt between the 2 of them. I didn't feel like I could ask her by txt to not have those kids meet up so I tried for a compromise, which was I would meet her a couple of hours later for afternoon tea and if our Aspie friend was still there they were welcome to come too. I told him that too (to meet for afternoon tea).

Honestly, if he didn't have Asperger's I would now be thinking that he's done something quite shitty and undermining of me. I really need to talk with her and ask her what was going on in her head that she thought it was ok to have a cup of tea somewhere else and then expect me to wait 40 minutes

>>Don't change yourself to suit him/his needs.<<

That is what I've been doing more lately. It does mean we see less of each other. He comes to the town where I live once a week or so, but doesn't tell me until he's already here so I have a choice of dropping things to see him or not seeing him. Lately I've been not seeing him (unless I really don't have anything on).

That's good advice though, thanks for the confirmation. I've decided that I'm not going to be part of arrangements with the two of them unless the mutual friend understands the Asperger's issues and how the problems are impacting on me. Part of the problem is that I decided last year that I wasn't keen on spending time with him when it was just the two of us. It's muchh better when his son is with him, or another adult.


>>There is presumably a reason why you don't email each other, but what about letters or even postcards?<<

Ben, do you mean to talk about the friendship issues and what's not working for me? I guess I feel like I need to be able to have a conversation where I can see what is going on. And given what people are saying here, I think letters would be fraught with similar problems as txt - there is no immediacy of feedback and communication, lots of potential for misunderstanding.

Also, it's really important in my life at the moment that my energy goes into productive, positive, affirming things, and this feels like alot of energy into something that drains me and could potentially keep doing so. If the opportunity arises to talk with him I think I will but I'm not sure I'm willing to make that happen or chase it.

Can't make arrangements by mail. Too slow where I live (I'd say a 5 day turnaround).

We have a five day turnaround too, but I have a friend with whom I maintain a friendship by mail because she has no PC. And I make arrangements to visit her. They just have to be a couple of weeks ahead, that's all.

It seems to me what you want is permission to walk away from this friendship.

It's ok, Kea. You can walk away from this friendship.

Yes, I have friendships like that too, but we're talking about someone that thinks about visiting me half an hour before he wants to visit. He's already not understanding the problems with changing plans that have been made ahead of time. I don't see how letter writing instead of txt would change that unless I were to use it each time to explain to him the importance of letting me know in time if things change (which would be tiresome, plus he'd probably have to reread the letter closer to the time).


I'm not sure that it's permission I'm after so much as trying to see if there is a way to make this workable for me (I don't know yet). I'm not really into disposable relationships. Maybe I should be

>> we're talking about someone that thinks about visiting me half an hour before he wants to visit

Yeah, that's a reason that letters wouldn't work. I was curious to know why you weren't considering them.

>>>Part of the problem is that I decided last year that I wasn't keen on spending time with him when it was just the two of us. It's muchh better when his son is with him, or another adult.<<<

I'm just a little perturbed by this sentence. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but do you not feel comfortable being alone with this person?

Kea, the reason he doesn't make advance arrangements is that he doesn't think of you until it's possible, if you understand that. It's an Aspie trait, I'd say - my son is the same. He once asked me what was different about the house, while he'd been at school. I said I moved the furniture while I hoovered, and he said he had expected everything to be the same when I returned. He still doesn't understand that life goes on *for other people* while he is elsewhere. He has *just* got the hang on texting, and it is only one word, "Done", when he wants collecting, although he will ring me via his mobile if he has forgotten something, he regards it as an important tool, not a method of communication or keeping in touch with friends.

I agree with Ben, you need permission to walk away. If you're not comfortable then the relationship is toxic, and you need the good 'uns which make you feel good about yourself. He will also blossom as he will no longer be confused as to why you aren't happy.

Lanza I feel safe enough with him. He's just alot of work and I have different priorities for my time and energy at the moment. It's easier for me if there is a third person there, I don't have to provide all the attention.


>>Kea, the reason he doesn't make advance arrangements is that he doesn't think of you until it's possible, if you understand that.<<

I think that's really helpful and it's very hard to get my head around. I think I need to talk with him about that if I get the chance.

I may need to walk away, I'm just not sure permission is the thing. I've been considering this for a while. I agree I need more good experiences at the moment (that's my main motivation for walking away). I also know that relationships need to be sustained over time and that it doesn't work to get rid of all the hard ones and think oh I'll just have the good ones thanks. That marginalises people, I've had that done to me at times and it's really shit. Also difficult people hold a lot of treasures. I'm trying to decide if this is workable in some way. It's been easier in the past and may be easier again in the future.

Sometimes I think I made a new friend when my son got his diagnosis (he has high-functioning autism which I am led to believe is very similar to Aspergers), because I had to learn a new way of communicating with him. We'd already developed some little tricks that worked, but about a year after the diagnosis I realised we were arguing a hell of a lot less.

Personally, I wouldn't put up with behaviour from him that I wouldn't from any one of my nieces or nephews. But, I do make some allowances for the communication differences between us, that some 'bad' behaviour is due to misunderstanding rather than he's just playing up cos he's a pain in the butt, and that he really has no idea that other people even have a perspective, or feelings, let alone that he needs to consider them. So, it's entirely possible that your friend really has no idea of any difficulties that you face - even if it appears to be staring him in the face.

The main thing I took away from J's diagnosis is that he is missing a 'shared understanding' that most people would have, so things that I would understand 'go together', J doesn't. So I might group together a lot of activities under one heading. For instance 'get ready to go out' is to me, one thing. To J, it's about half a dozen. Shoes, often socks as well, need getting out and putting on. He might work out he needs a coat, but will forget he needs a jumper until he's outside moaning that it's cold. Then in the summer, he'll take his coat because he's spent all winter learning the habit that 'get ready to go out' means he needs his coat.

I was also told that J finds it difficult to realise that the knowledge he has, isn't shared by everyone. I haven't found this, but people outside the home have, and it's one of the reasons he was in a lot of trouble at school before the diagnosis. He just didn't know what he needed to tell people, and what he didn't. So is it possible that your friend has thought about cancelling plans and then doesn't understand that you don't know he's done it, so when he's making new arrangments he thinks you already know the previous arrangements have fallen through.

So basically, J thinks everyone else shares his understanding of life, the universe and everything, and has no idea that there is any other way to look at things. He is now aware there is an issue, as am I, but really he has to do the majority of the 'work' at learning how to get along, because I'm not going to be there translating for him for the rest of this life.

So I'd say your friend should, in some way, be aware, or be made aware, that people do see life differently and even if he can't get to grips with that, he should at least learn where the difficulties are so there are less misunderstandings.

I'm not sure whose place it would be to make a grown adult understand that, but friends seem a good place to start. If he's anything like J, he will be 'in danger' of taking things literally, ie he'll just see surface stuff, he'll completely miss deeper meanings.

Thanks Mina, that's very helpful.

I'm really starting to get past my own 'oh for god's sake you're an intelligent person, just figure it out', and see that both of us probably just need some new communication skills.

Thank-you everyone for all the perspectives. I'm feeling much more positive now. What I really want to do is ask him if I can talk with him about Asperger's and his experience and understanding of it, and if that goes ok then talk with him about the problems with arrangements and communications. And explain clearly what works and why and what doesn't work and why and put it bluntly that if we are going to spend time together then this is what will have to happen.

I don't want to walk away (at this stage at least). The last three times we got together were fun and engaging and I'd be happy for that to happen again. The unmanageable bit seems to be about the arrangements and it seems worthwhile talking with him about that.

One thing I'm still struggling with a bit in myself is understanding how he can, say, know to meet his son at the airport. He wouldn't think that was a casual thing that could be changed at no notice. But is it a mistake for me to be trying to understand his mental processes like that (and actually I don't know that he doesn't keep his son waiting)? Would it be better just to focus on the boundaries and being really clear in communication?

I'd say...and this obviously just my opinion; others here may think otherwise.

Because it's not like he's your child or anything, where you have other responsibilties in that sort of relationship. He's a friend. For now I'd just keep it really simple and straight. And basically explain to him that if the friendship is to continue, x, y, and z needs to happen, because these are essential needs for yourself. He can then say whether he can manage that or not. If he says he can, you can say fine, we can carry on being friends.

If subsequently, like the very next time you meet, he doesn't do that. I'd just sever things. But you need to be clear with yourself what x, y, and z are. Obviously you're getting some positivity from seeing him sometimes, as you explained. But if the negatives keep outweighing the positives, and are affecting your health...it's just tough, IMO.

Yes, as you've said earlier it's shitty sometimes to be dumped or marginalised, because of some disability issue. But that's just how it is sometimes. I'd say it's up to you to decide how important it is to prioritise your own needs. I'd certainly do that in this situation. People have done it to me too. I just had to lump it. It's part of life for all of us.

Not sure what you mean about meeting his son at the airport, I assume you mean he doesn't cancel that because he knows he can't, while he knows he can with you?

It could be this is nothing to do with aspergers, and he's just a bit, well, rude. I put my hands up to sometimes cancelling going to events, parties, dinners, h2g2 meets, etc that I said I would. I mean it when I agree to go, but then sometimes when the time comes I just can't face going out.

They haven't been just one person I'm cancelling through - I'm pretty sure the party or dog show still goes ahead without me. It is something I'm working on trying to STOP DOING though. Maybe your mate is doing something similar and it's not related at all.

kea;
The one thing to remember or consider about relationships/dealing with humans with perceptional whose realities, that are some what outside the norm, is to try and think in the way they do. I reefer you to Temple Grandin , She has written numerous books on animal behavior and human behavior. Dr. Oliver Sacks has written about her as well, the quote I remember best is from Temple, as"in reference to dealing with fellow humans" as being an anthropologist from "Mars". Sorry about the extra spaces my computer is glitching.

tell him you have been diagnosed with short bout tourettes, then rip into him and vent some spleen