h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>> I was taught to pretend you're so terrified you're about to be sick on them. <<

I wouldn't have to pretend!

Actually my conditioning would probably take over and I'd just curl up to try to protect my head (Dunno how long the catatonia would last afterwards though...)

It really depends on the situation and the methods of pacific or violent protest being used.

For example back in the day, when the masses staple food was bread and their survival was often dependent on corn prices, peaceful protest in the form of bread riots (normally ordered and non-violent) was often very effective at ensuring a good supply of fairly priced bread.

Gosh, this thread has certainly moved on since Post 2!

Donald, by "an aberration" I assume you mean Amritsar was an isolated incident? Ever heard of Jaito (for example)?

>> If something similar were to happen today, in Northern Ireland for instance, it would certainly lead to murder charges. <<

You're too young to remember the battle of the Beanfield then? The one where the British army were drafted in to pretend to be police officers and given instructions to break as many heads as possible?

>> Ever heard of Jaito (for example)? <<

No, enlighten me.

By the Battle of the Beanfield I take you mean the events at Stonehenge in 1985. Different place, different time. No comparison with Amritsar. No one was shot. Not relevant. As for the involvement of the British Army, evidence or heresy? Or just black propaganda!

It should be remembered that Stonehenge is right on the edge of one of the largest military training areas in the UK. There well may have been Army personnel involved in the background to ensure the disturbances did not spill over onto the training area - but dressed in Police uniforms!

To young to remember. Oh if only that were the case! In 1985 I was in the British Army just coming up the end of a 22 year engagement. If there had been any involvement of the Army, I am sure I would have known or heard about it. You couldn't keep anything like that a secrest for long.

Donald

The whole point is that violence was used in India, true it wasnt widespread but it was used.

Yes Ghandi could have been dealth with at any time by one man with a big stick. My point is that King, could have been dealt with too, but they werent because they had millioons of people willing to make their dreams of peaceful force for change a reality which they bloody well did.

Donald you can reword it how you like but you cant change history.

When people like you learn we can change things without killing people then we will learn that enough people can change things without killing people despite the actions of would be dictators.

one love

I cant remeber who said it now:

Its easy to find something people will kil for.
Its hard to find something people will die for.
Its even harder to find something people will live for.

>> The whole point is that violence was used in India, true it wasnt widespread but it was used. <<

I've never denied violence was used, by both sides. But it was relatively minor compared to what could have been used.

>> My point is that King, could have been dealt with too, but they werent because they had millioons of people willing to make their dreams of peaceful force for change a reality which they bloody well did. <<

Who we talking about her, Martin Luther King, The King, Stephen King or perhaps Burger King.

>> Donald you can reword it how you like but you can't change history. <<

I have never attempted to change history - just put it in it's proper perspective.

>> When people like you learn we can change things without killing people <<

People like me! You mean a pragmatist instead of an idealist.

Just to put things into more perspective. I spent 22 years in a front line infantry regiment. For a large part of the time I had a loaded rifle in my hand. During that time I never fired a shot in anger although I was shot at on a number of occasions. The crack of bullet whisling past your ear doesn't half concentrate the mind!

When you come up against people who are prepared to kill to achieve their objectives, it doesn't leave a lot of choice as to how you deal with them.

Donald

>> Its easy to find something people will kil for.
Its hard to find something people will die for.
Its even harder to find something people will live for. <<

Anything worth living for is also worth dying for.

Like freedom for instance.

Donald

You call yourself a pragmatist and then talk about dying for abstracts?

Because it quite clearly depends on which freedoms and what the other edge of the sword is.

I don't think there is anything abstract about freedom. It's been pretty well defined over the centuries. The other edge of the sword is oppression.

The pragmatic approach is that freedom in a precious commodity and precious commodities don't come cheap.

Donald

Tefkat,

A week ago you made a scurrilous accusation regarding the British Army.

I questioned the allegation and gave you three days to find some supporting evidence. The best I could find was “...and some believed, Army officers in Police uniform.”

So how did “some believed” turn into the certainty of the statement you made not to mention the totally unfounded accusation of brutality.

As you have not produced any evidence to substantiate the veracity of the claim, I can only assume that the statement was little more than puerile attempt to smirch the reputation of an organisation you have not the slightest understanding off.

Donald