h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I do not, repeat not, wish to do this; the question came up in a chat I was having elsewhere about last year's suicide lectures (ah, the joys of Philosophy at Durham...), and I thought I'd make things a little less 'oh so quiet' in here by asking whether anyone knew the answer.

As a Brit I'm primarily interested in the answer as regards U.K. law, but don't let that stop you giving answers that apply to other countries if you know them.

I think talking someone with an unstable mind into killing themselves is manslaughter.

But I'm not sure.

Well, neither am I.

I wonder whether the manner of talking has an impact, i.e. rationally setting out arguments for suicide vs. coercion.

I have heard that if two or more people enter into a suicide pact, and they don't all die the remaining people can be prosecuted, so I would assume this would be the same.

The manner of talking should be important.

In medicine you have to tell the patient all of the details so they can make a decision - informed consent. If you don't you can get into a *lot* of trouble.


Mina - do you mean something along the lines of "okay, we'll jump together... haha - sucker" ?

Thanks for posting, Mina. That does make me wonder: would the pact members be guilty of murder or manslaughter, or aiding and abetting? And as which would talking someone into suicide count?

Oh, and Thursday -- whatever happened to using the Thursday account purely for Thursdayite stuff?

"Mina - do you mean something along the lines of "okay, we'll jump together... haha - sucker" ?"

Not quite, I was thinking of two people doing whatever method together, and one surviving. It's only something I 'heard' though - probably when I was a teenager reading it in magazines many decades ago.

As to a charge, having looked around at news sites about court cases, it seems to vary between manslaughter and aiding and abetting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3890539.stm

So it's looking illegal in at least some circumstances.

Aiding and abetting in other than a suicide pact definitely is illegal in the UK and so I would imagine in most other developed countries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/october/30/newsid_2465000/2465183.stm

However when two people make a pact and one survives it may not be so clear cut.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4039549.stm

The coroner has yet to give a verdict on this case. If it is unlawful killing she likely to be charged with manslaughter. However, I think the law tends to take a more compassionate view in these cases and she will probably not be charged with anything.

Donald

So the answer currently looks like 'maybe in a suicide pact'.

I think it may be possible to create a set of 'rules' as we go along:

You can't talk someone into committing suicide if:
1 - you have no intention to commit suicide yourself.
2 - they are a minor or mentally immature.
3 - they are not fit to make the decision for other reasons.

However, if all the people involved are equally suicidal and none are 'controlling' the others, then it may be acceptable. The only way that one of them would survive is their *unwanted* rescue.

These rules are not strict - there will of course be fuzzy lines between legal and illegal. That's for the jury to decide...

PS This is actually how 'case law' works - new judgements are often based on old cases.

Being pedantic - you can, but you'd get into trouble!

Are you including incitement to suicide as a crime e.g. driving someone to suicide by bullying them?

Ok - I'll change it from "You can't" to "It is 'illegal'"

I'll include incitement too.

Instead of posting a new set of 'rules' each time a few people make points or cite cases, I will keep changing them in this guide entry - A3336554. That way we'll know where we're up to.

What have I started?

I'm just trying to help you out...

I see you've used your Thursday account to do it... Is this an official Thursdayite area of interest?

"2 - they are a minor or mentally immature."

I'm not liking the wording here. Mentally unstable?

Someone who is susceptibile to being talked into sucicide is likely to be already unstable in some way.
What about people who accidently do it? That might sound a bit daft but what if you're talking to someone and you say something and they then kill themselves because of your point? For example, I had a friend who called the Samaritans once and actually felt worse after talking to them...she didnt kill herself but you get the idea.

'Someone who is susceptibile to being talked into sucicide is likely to be already unstable in some way.'

In pre-modern Japan honour/ritual suicide was an accepted part of the culture. Surely the people who were brought up to accept that and went on accepting it weren't all, or even mostly, mentally unstable.

But if people are suicidal because they're depressed, they're probably not at their most rational.