h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Member wrote: "Naturally, Death-threat Della and her late brother had this account on their "Friends" list, presumably because given the sort of people they are, the only "Friends" they can muster are people they're related to."

After getting a phone call I have logged in to see what all the fuss is about and I see this. Ofcouse I have more reading to do but surely there are limits.

The comment may have been in bad taste, Apparition, but no more so (imho) than attempting to drag a personal feud onto 'ask h2g2'.

It seems you and others have enough other threads going on regarding this topic. I see no need to start another one, especially here.

az

oh you're dissapointing...

Where have I started one? People who liked empty sky may beinterested to know he is the victim of a cowardly post mortem attack.

Well, it seems you are spoiling for a public fight, Apparition, so I shall leave you to it.

az

No.

My reasons :

1) I don't know if the person in question really existed. I don't know who is who on this site. For all I know, EmptySky could be an alias that you are using to get at certain people.

2) Disliking someone, dead or alive, is not against the rules. If the HouseRules are broken, then punishment is dealt out. I didn't like EmptySky, I thought he was rude, insensitive and racist. Should I be kicked off the site for expressing an opinion? No. If you don't like my opinions, don't read my posts.

3) This is a case of morals. It's not immoral, in my opinion, to speak ill of the dead. It might be for you, but morals are only relative to you and yourself. You've no right to try and force that on other people.

4) The part you quoted was hardly offensive. It might be for you, because you are still sore after suffering a personal loss. That's fine, but stop making everyone else suffer along with you. Take your grief to your personal space, and stop using it to attack people you don't like.

Apparition. Just calm down, OK? None of this is necessary.

The other point of course Apparition is that you've taken a very selective section of Member's posting, which in its entirity does not have the same tone, and used it 'against' him... Not of course that he needs much defending

who would even trash someone thats past on?

Redbones - we speak ill of the dead all the time here. Any time there's a debate that touches on an aspect of history there will be people calling the decisions of leaders now deceased into question.

The difference here is that Member has been tactless and spoken ill of a former Researcher, someone who has relatives on the site who have been offended.

Sometimes, people take the anonymity of the internet to behave rather poorly, knowing that there are little or no consequences to their actions and even taking it so far as to be a kind of 'signiture' style (anyone who reads Chris Hyatte of 411mania.com will know what I mean). We all do it, from time to time, and as Saturnine said we have the choice not to read the posts of that person or to Yikes them and let those who moderate sort it out.

Well, exactly, Whisky. The 'quote' by Member is taken totally out of context. Not surprising, I suppose, with the context being that Apparition had tampered with his family's friends lists by impersonating another researcher (whose name then showed up on the lists instead of Apparition's), which upset his mother who then said something very nasty (if not illegal) to the researcher being impersonated by her son and who *then* continued on by posting an official complaint as well as a journal entry accusing the innocent researcher of tampering with her family's friends lists and upsetting them all especially as one of them is dead. Within *that* context Member made his comment whilst describing what had happened to another researcher. So, not exactly an out-of-the blue vicious attack on the dead, though possibly a remark of questionable taste.

Odd that Apparition left all that out, doncha think?

az

Well azahar it seems you're the one determined to drag everything up, doesn't it?

I wish I hadn't posted anything. For the record, moderation is not always an option as it doesn't work equaly for everyone. I haven't even read all of what this hostility is comming from.

I give up.

<>
You insensitive woman, how dare you say such a thing? Believe me, there are other words I would like to use to respond to such a remark, but I am an adult.

In the short time that I have been wandering around this site this is the first time I have ever seen anything like this vindictive squabble that is going on here.
I don't really believe it is my place to make any kind of judgement but I do think you are all lowering the tone of the whole community by continuing it.
"justice" is most obviously never going to be done to satisfy all parties so maybe the grown up thing to do would be to just not rise to the bait and to avoid those pages that have content which you might find offensive.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't feel that this wasn't what this site has evolved for.

Della, what the heck is insensitive about that? I DON'T KNOW, DO I?

I have met exactly four people from hootoo. Everyone else, as far as reality is concerned, could be some guy or girl having a fine old time with their imagination.

We all choose to believe what we want to believe. I choose to believe that you exist, much like you choose to believe I exist. That's a mutual agreement right there.

My point was that the rules shouldn't change for things that occur in reality. If a researcher dies, then their space should be left untouched. If someone "speaks ill" of people that cannot access the site (be it through death or just inaccessibility) then, if it doesn't break the existing HouseRules, then it's just someone's opinion. You can either choose to discard it, or think about it - either way.

The anonymity of the net means that reality is a separate entity. If a researcher dies, they do not become any more sacred than anyone else who does or does not use the site. "Speaking ill" of the dead is about personal morals, and those are things that no one has a right to inflict on other people.

Sorry Della, but that's reality. I understand your grief, but this is getting a bit too much. I don't like my enjoyment of the site being ruined because people are acting out over something that is exterior to the goings on here.

And on a personal defence note : I hardly think I am being insensitive - there are no requirements for me to be nice about a person that I intensely disliked. However, I am saddened that you suffered a loss in your life, and have said so on other threads.

<>
For what it's worth.
For my part, Saturnine, I take people as they present themselves to be -maybe I am not cynical enough... I have never assumed anyone to be anything other than they claim to be. Aside from family, I know maybe six people from RL, and I treat everyone here as worthy of respect, unless they show themselves otherwise.
If you can't see why what you said was insensitive, then I am sorry, there's nothing I can do to explain. You just won't get it.

Della, I would contest that assuming people are other than they claim to be or in fact are, is one of your major problems.

Wasnt it you who assumed az, was American. And said so.

You certainly assumed I was a teenage white boy And said so.

Recently you assumed that it was me who put *my* tag on your friends list.And said so.

On about FIVE threads. After I had told you it was'nt me.

If I had a little look Im sure I could find many more inaccurate assumptions of yours. As you manage to be able to hold onto a grudge quite easily I am assuming that you have no major memory problems and therefore I will assume that you are trying to deliberately deceive people when you say "I have never assumed anyone to be anything other than they claim to be."

Did nobody ever tell you that liars make themselves unpopular?

They do you know and thats not an assumption its a fact.

one love

Death-threat Della wrote:

"You insensitive woman, how dare you say such a thing?"

She dares to say such a thing because you and your son both have a record of starting other accounts under other names and pretending they are not you. There is no compelling reason to believe that "Empty Sky" was not simply another one of your aliases, and indeed a compelling reason to believe it WAS - i.e. you say it wasn't and you're a known liar.

"Believe me, there are other words I would like to use to respond to such a remark, but I am an adult."

Yes - an adult with a record of making "serious" (the word YOU used) threats of death against another user of h2g2.

So - should impersonating another researcher (as Apparition/Wraith did, which started this) be added to the House Rules?

No need - it's already there. He broke the rule, and made you look a prize fool into the bargain.

Should making "serious" death threats be added to the House Rules? I don't think so. Any rational adult should know that it is wrong. You don't, obviously, but that's no surprise.

Do try to understand, both of you, that YOUR actions are what destroy your credibility. I merely point out what you've done - you're the ones who actually do it.

>She dares to say such a thing because you and your son both have a record of starting other accounts under other names and pretending they are not you.<
Mrs Pot, I take it you are already acquainted with Mr Kettle?

Seriously, you guys have been having this ongoing shin-kicking match for quite some time now. Don't you all have something better to do with your time?

Oh, and btw, no. If I want to refer to a deceased person as a scabies ridden no-talent hack who couldn't plot a course to the end of the street then I will, and I wouldn't want that right removed as the result of a petty vendetta.

Hadn't noticed that particular point

I put the original quote 'in context' not to start a fight but to show that it wasn't specifically meant as an 'attack against the dead'. And to maybe get Apparition to reconsider what he was doing.

As for the original question - no, it should not be a House Rule that people are not allowed to speak ill of the dead. Otherwise how could we ever debate about some long-dead polititian or writer or whoever?

Just because someone is dead doesn't mean that we cannot express our opinions about them.

Again, if someone finds there has been a personal attack in any way they are free to use the complaints button to have the offending posting removed.

az

Why don't all the protagonists take it outside?Leave us out of your petty squabbles please.

I wish folk would stop trying to LIMIT the researchers here to narrow and petty viewpoints and 'rules'.Frankly if folk MUST drag their private lives onto this public site then they must expect others to comment.It is a site designed for that very thing to happen.

Why not chill out and try to go make some positive contributions elsewhere on h2g2 that actually add to the site.


Incog.