h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The following is a cipher (dated Jan. 1616) i'm working on - it seems to be in dutch - i'd appreciate it if anyone can supply word divisions and translation if possible - it probably contains several spelling errors etc.

DETODNGENVANONSENURINDTENSONNOCHTERTOTVANGEENGROOTECONSICERATIE (4 illegible words here possibly a signature) V.L.MOISSCROUENDEVANMUERDERCONSEQUENTIE (???? ?erscherheye als al dat HORAEST Welch altesamen. J? ge comprehendaere. Jnde GASETTENVANITALIEDIEZOHIERALLEZE?ENHEBBEN soo dat V.L. ??cer jimeriterende. de iz(12) GULDENSTERMAENTALLHO desniettemm' laet HEMCONTINUERENMAERSCROTTHEMSOMTOTSDATHOONSADVISEREVANHETGHENECDATNETTENSHEMISPASSERENDE sonder soo door de Werell le Coopen.

'L' & 'S' were represented by almost identical symbols so interchangeable here - 'U' & 'V' interchangeable as are 'I' & 'J'

Lower case letters were not in cipher - hence word divisions but the handwriting was almost illegible so do not take the spellings as necessarily correct.

Remember it's 400 years old - se expect a few spelling variations from present.

The first half of the letter this comes from is in French - so possibly contains a French word or two???

Many thanks in anticipation - Jean Palmer

This is what I understand of it:

DE TOD (the dead?)

NGEN

VAN ONS EN (from us and)

URINDTENSONNOCHTERTOT

VAN GEEN GROOTE CONSICERATIE (from not a big connsecration)

(4 illegible words here possibly a signature)
V.L.MOISSCROUENDE
VAN MUERDER (could be a last name or From murder)
CONSEQUENTIE (implication, consequence)

(???? ?erscherheye

als al dat (if al that)

HORAEST Welch

altesamen. (all together)

J?
ge comprehendaere. (do you understand?)

Jnde GASETTEN VAN ITALIE DIE ZO HIER AL LEZE?EN (and the newspapers from Italy wich they (everybody?) read over here)

HEBBEN (have)

soo dat (so that)
V.L. ??cer
jimeriterende. (imitating, when j=l limitating)

de iz(12)
GULDEN STER (gold star?, gulden used to be the dutch coins)

M AENTALLHO
desniettemm' (nevertheless = desalniettemin)
laet HEM CONTINUEREN (let him continu)
MAER (but)
SCROTTHEM SO M TOTS DAT HOONS
ADVISERE VAN HET GHENEC DAT (advise from that wich???)
NETTENS
HEM (him)
IS PASSERENDE (is passing)
sonder (without)
soo (so)
door (through, by means of, because of)
de Werell le Coopen.


Hope I could be of help

Many thanks - I have'nt had time to look at it yet - is dutch your native language? I may have another for you soon!

Tony

Perhaps Pheloxi might help? I believe he is dutch...

I've been playing, not being dutch, but liking languages in general. If it helps, great, if not, laugh at it...

DE TODN GEN VAN ONSEN UR IN D TEN SON NOCHTER TOT ’
The dead go towards our time (hours) in the at? Son? our death

VAN GEEN GROOTE CONSICERATIE (4 illegible words here possibly a signature)
With no great conscience

V.L.MOISS CROUE N DE VAN MUERDER CONSEQUENTIE
VL Moisscroue and of the Muerder consequence

(???? ?erscherheye als al dat HORA EST Welch altesamen. J? ge comprehendaere.
?? he scher (cut?) like that of the time that is, which altogether I don’t comprehend???

In de GASETTEN VAN ITALIE DIE ZOHIER ALLE ZE?
In the italian newspapers which to here (until now?) all the?

EN HEBBEN soo dat V.L. ??
And has so that V.L??

cer jimeriterende. de iz(12) GULDEN S TERMA ENT ALL HO des niet temm laet
cer are merited to 12 gulden (guilders/currency) and all those who it not let be?

HEM CONTINUERE N MAERSC ROTT
He continue and (may he rot???)

HEM SOM TOTS DAT HOONS ADVISERE VAN HET GHEN EC DAT N ETT ENS
Him who does what he is advised of/about what not I do and it once

HEM IS PASSERENDE sonder soo door de Werell le Coopen.
Him / he is passed by but so the Werell the Coopen


Could you tell us more about this text?

Thanks for your efforts -

If it helps -
The line previous to the cipher talked about a young mans continuel employment.

In the first line ONSENURIND I take to be ONSEN VRIND 'our friend'

The word MUERDER - 2nd two letters are illegible could easily be IE EE etc.

HORAEST I think is Latin for 'the time has come'

the bit GULDENSTERMAENTALLHO should be GULDENSTERMAENTALSHO

as for newspapers in the 1600's - can it just be 'news'

I can't tell you anything more about it - it's from the British Library Manuscripts - I rummage through to find codes & ciphers to solve!!

Regards Tony
Let's hope someone who's native language it is sees it.

Coming soon - an Italian message, (full of nulls) in need of lots of unravelling.

It might be flemish. I think I recognize 'Moeskroen', the name of a flemish town. 1616? These words could be written by a 007 during the eighty years war, or is it just a letter from one merchant in Antwerp to his representative in Venice. Everything is possible.

DE ** the
TODNGEN --tongen ** voices
VAN ** of
ONSEN --onze ** our
URINDTEN --vrienden ** friends
SONNOCHTER --z'n dochter ** his doughter
TOT \
VAN \
GEEN \
GROOTE \
CONSICERATIE --tot van geen groot belang ** will not be important

What our friends doughter says is not important

V.L.MOIS
SCROUENDE --schouwende ** observing
VAN ** of
MUERDER
CONSEQUENTIE
(???? ?erscherheye als al dat HORAEST Welch altesamen.
J? ge comprehendaere.
Jn de GASETTEN VAN IT ALIEDIE ZOHIER ALLEZE? --in flemish a gazet is a newspaper, in dutch it is a messager.
--In de gazetten van alle lieden die hier komen. ** in the papers of everyone who comes here
EN ** and
HEBBEN ** have
soo dat V.L. ??cer jimeriterende. de iz(12)
GULDENSTERMAENTALLHO desniettemm' laet HEM
CONTINUEREN
MAERSCROTTHEMSOM
TOTSDAT --totdat ** until
HOONS --honen ** make condemning sound
ADVISERE
VAN ** of
HET ** the
GHENEC --geinige ** funny (thing)
DAT ** that
NETTEN --hebben ** have
SHEMIS --gemist ** missed
PASSERENDE ** passing
sonder soo door de Werell le Coopen

Well that is what I can make of it

V.L.MOIS
SCROUENDE --schouwende ** observing
VAN ** of
MUERDER --meerder ** more
CONSEQUENTIE **concistency


soo --zo ** in a way
dat --dat ** that
V.L. ??cer
jimeriterende. --emiritus zijn ** beeing retired (of professor or clergy)
de iz(12)

GULDEN --gulden ** golden or florin
STER ** star
MAEN ** moon
TALLHO --betalen ** pay
desniettemm' --des-al-niet-te-min ** not to be ignored
laet --laat ** let
HEM --hem ** him



What I dont understand in your writing is what is your comment and what's original, be it confirmed.

Hi
I don't quite understand your query as to what is original and what is comment??

I rechecked the original the TALLHO should be TALSHO

Jean