h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The Flat Earth Society is an interesting thing. Apparently the members don't actually believe the earth is flat but their leader claims he can't be defeated in an argument with a 'round-earther'. I must look this up some time.

There's a small probability that we're all part of a Matrix like computer simulation. Which is why everything we perceive and everything we measure could, just, be an illusion. Philosophically then, if not pragmatically, there really is no such thing as a 'fact'. Useless or otherwise.

F

They don't necessarily say it's flat. They just say that since we ultimately have to rely on subjective experience, we can't *prove* it's round. Therefore it *might* be another shape (which we can only guess at by mystical means). At least I *think* that's their argument.

"Eppur si muove"

The Koreshan cult believe that the earth is round, but that it is a hollow sphere and that we are on the inside of the sphere.

>>There's a small probability that we're all part of a Matrix like computer simulation

What would you estimate the probability as?

did you know you eat about five spiders in your sleep every year, and in your life time you will shed more than twelve times your body weight in old skin, loverly isn't it

See also the "Welteislehre" - a theory that we lived on the inside of a ball of ice, which pretty much became official Nazi dogma.

Then tehere's the story of a woman who castigated a famous figure (I think it was Shaw. But maybe Bertrand Russell) for refusing to believe her theory that the earth was carried on the backs of giant turtles (cf Terry Pratchett). The figure (let's say it was Shaw) said:
"And what, pray madam, supports the turtles"
To which she replied:
"Why! It's turtles all the way down!"

(I've just googled. Opinion is split between Russell and Thomas Huxley)

http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/spiders.htm

realy?

i am rather glad about that. I wouldn't like to think I eaten one of them!

Hi Gnomon,

">>There's a small probability that we're all part of a Matrix like computer simulation

What would you estimate the probability as?"

Funnily enough, this has been done. It appeared in New Scientist a few months ago (can't offer a link as I only have limited internet access from here). The argument is that either we are the first civilisation to develop computers capable of running such a simulation (although we haven't, yet, it seems a strong possibility to virtual certainty in the future) or we are part of such a simulation. Given that, once such a simulation is possible, there will probably be more than one created - and probably many - then there is a higher probability that this universe is a simulation than that it isn't. Let's say the 'original' civilisation develops suitable technology and puts together ten simulations, all slightly different, for experimental purposes. Also assume that the simulations are sufficiently realistic for the characters within the simulation to be unable to tell that it is one; either by direct observation or any conceivable experiment. For any given character or real person it is then ten times more likely they are in a simulation than they are real. Of course there could be millions of simulations, just like there are copies of 'The Sims' today.

So, how would you know you were in a simulation? In theory you wouldn't; but you could look out for subtle, inexplicable inconsistencies in the underlying physical laws and perhaps a grainy or 'digital' quality to your universe. Oddly enough quantum theory does have these characteristics...

F

Isn't there a philosophical theory called the 'brain in a bowl' theory? Also it strikes me that Matrix is always cited in these cases as though it originated these ideas, but I've always felt everything from Matrix was done twice as well in Red Dwarf.

A bit of a tangent, but there was a scientist a couple of months back who suggested that our 'creators' (perhaps aliens) may have left a message for us in DNA.

Red Dwarf - Psirens.

Yes, I agree, but The Matrix is much better known.

F

NO NO NO!

1) If we were part of a simulation we would have no way to know about it. The simulation would, to all intents and purposes be reality. The only evidence that it was not would be if the laws of physics started to behave inconsistently - as in The Matrix.

2) We can discuss reality between ourselves and take a common view. Therefore it is real. (This is Wittgenstein's argument)

3) We can subject the cognitive/neurological processes by which we perceive reality to scientific scrutiny. Therefore they (and we) are real (This argument froma guy called David Deutsch).

I fear I've opened a can of worms and we're getting too darn serious for this conversation.Wibble

But you're welcome to continue it at the Freedom From Faith Foundation: A665101...and specifically in the 'New kind of business forum' conversation. Beware, though. It may hurt your head.

Reminds me of a saying: "If the human brain were simple enough for us to understand we'd be too simple to understand it".

Owch!

1: 'We're all just part of a simulation'
I: 'So what?'

(...)

I: 'Who's got the hi-score?'

This reminds me of some discussions about the ultimate origins of the universe... The universe is nothing but a PR thread on hootoo. THe author is AWOL, and everyone else just picking nits...

H

This fact is really useless:

All humanity could (still) be placed on the Isle of Wight, standing.

HELL

The Isle of Wight? Where's that?

Are you serious?

http://www.islandbreaks.co.uk/

--------

One of the saturn rings is a Moebius band.

Barbie's full name is 'Barbie Millicent Roberts'


(And I believe the Isle of Wight stat is outdated. I think by now it's Zanzibar).