h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

<> (TRiG)

Nope. NZ recruits doctors from all over the world. The reason that some hospitals that should be providing abortion services end up with gynecologists that won't is because that is what they want (i.e. the people doing the hiring are anti-abortion).

Nicki it's not a question of the Catholic church putting their POV but of enforcement. I will not question anyone's right to put over their POV especially on such a grey area but I DO question anyone's right to enforce anyone to abide by their morality.

First of i see it plain insanity to ban abortion. Having made that clear, i think that a doctor does have the right to refuse to do an operation and needn't give up the whole job because of that. Lying, and keeping vital information from the patient, is a wholly different and disgusting subject. In a situation where there was no other doctor available or it was an urgent case, i think he might be obliged to do it, but normally he would only have to tell you the truth and recommend some other doctor who could do what was to be done.

that'd be:
first off i see it as..

I've just thought of one: C. S. Lewis.

(Now I didn't know him personally, so what I said earlier still holds true.)

TRiG.

There was a case in NZ within the last year of a doctor who decided not to provide contarception advice and abortion referrals, because of his beliefs. Some groups made a meal of this, demanding that he be fired - but as a newspaper article showed, the electronic media had shed, as if often their wont, far more heat than light.

The doctor had sent letters to all his patients informing them of his decision and *telling them of other doctors to whom they could go*! This is what all the objectors to his stance and all those calling for his head preferred to ignore. He had made provision for any patients requiring these services...

Not giving contraception advice? It's amazing that there are people who actually think people .can. keep away from sex, even in marriage, unless they'll always be pregnant. And that people can afford to raise so many children as proper human beings in such a world. And if they can't and have to abstain, sleeping in the same bed, they can stay sane. Masturbation is sinful too. Great.

What if they believe it's sinful? It's no excuse to bring wretched dozens of children into a wretched world. Be sinful and go to hell really. How selfish of you!

The point I was making about this particular doctor, is that he was in a group practice, and his patients had dozens of alternatives did they need such advice, which afaik, most of them didn't, being middle class and middle aged! My point was about screeching in the electronic media implying that he was bad, and wrong and unethical and had denied his patients life-saving information! If he was a rural doctor with no colleagues for miles around, it would have been different.

Who is the GP? Dr Joseph Hassan?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10350646

If so, you might want to reconsider the 'middle class' bit...

You might recall that I live in Nelson and I know that his practice is not exactly surrounded by prime real estate - rather, the nearest primary school has the lowest 'decile' rating in the province!

For his patients, the problem posed by his steadfast refusal is compounded by the next nearest GP being a good mile away - in a town where public transport is hardly convenient

Putting this simply (i haven't read the backlog so i dunno if anyone has made this *profound* argument yet) The church should not be allowed to mess with anyones right to choose, if you are a catholic then you can *choose* not to have an abortion but you don't have the right to take that choice away from others because of your personal beliefs. I'm sick of right wing religious fanatics trying to make everyone elses damn decisions for them. STOP RUINING LIVES!

The point has been made that the Church is not (at the moment) even *trying* to 'mess with anyone's right to choose'.

TRiG.

Well done, six7s!

<> (Della)

According to the article he also told his patients in this letter that "their fertility was a gift to be looked after and not something to be treated with medication like a disease." Which is *not* a medical opinion but rather a personally held religious belief. Medical doctors should never be allowed to try and influence their patients treatment choices based on their religious beliefs.

Clearly the man is not simply telling people where else they can go. He is also imposing his religious beliefs on his patients, which is not only unprofessional but surely must also be illegal.


az

Oh, come off it, azahar! "Imposing" implies that they had no choice but to listen to him... they had every choice not to, it was a letter which they could have binned if they so chose. It's not as if he inflicted the Spanish Inquisition on them! (Unless you consider expressing views contrary to your own as a form of abuse... Oh, wait... you do seem to don't you?)

Re Six7's, assertions. My sister lives in Nelson. Low SES, give me a break! In Nelson?

Who there doesn't have a car, an SUV even?

Well all the rich people won't be cleaning their own toilets Della.


>>Unless you consider expressing views contrary to your own as a form of abuse.<<

Well there's the irony because obviously in az's case her doctor's personal beliefs were a form of abuse that threatened her life.

They could have just binned a letter, that's true.

I find it hard to believe that someone sending out a letter to his patients supposedly to simply give them information about where else to look for certain medical treatment - someone who could not stop himself from telling them "their fertility was a gift to be looked after and not something to be treated with medication like a disease" - would be the sort of person who wouldn't also express these opinions in his surgery.

I've met this sort of doctor before. And in my opinion they should not be allowed to practice medicine.

az

The difference with consulting a doctor is that its their duty to provide professional, authoritative advice on your health. They can moralise all they like when they're not working.

That was in response to Della's portrayal of the doctor as merely providing an alternative viewpoint.

Oh, Bouncy, what happened to the right to free speech that you defend so strongly in your country?

Expressing views is a crime if the views aren't mainstream is that it?

Oh, Kea, way to miss the point! I didn't say rich, I said comfortable... my sister certainly cleans her own toilet! Are you imagining hordes of Hispanic maids (or Samoan, maybe?)

It is to laugh!

<>

obviously not! She got another doctor easily enough, didn't she?

You do like to pathetically try and push other people's buttons, don't you, Della?

I'm not going to rise to your bait. I've already posted the link to my experience here before - here it is again. A3986977

<> (Della)

Yeah right.

az