h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Right... as we're not allowed to talk about you know what... I thought this forum could do with an alternative 'Big Debate' that we can all discuss freely (or beat down to the level of insults and personal attacks if you wish)

To start with...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2824725.stm

After comic relief last week and seeing all the clips showing us where our money goes, it is becoming increasingly obvious that these sorts of problems are increasing rather than reducing, despite the 1980's Live Aid brouhaha... And not only is it increasing, but it seems to be exacerbated by the financial and trade policies of the big powers, particularly in the west...

So, what are the root causes? Can we help prevent this kind of thing? Does anyone here agree with globalisation even if, as it appears, it signs the death warrant of millions of Africans, through starvation, AIDs or other means... Or is it the fault of tin-pot corrupt political regimes and inter-tribal fighting...

This is an area that seems to garner little interest in discussion forums or in the wider media. Considering it is likely, in fact already has been, a far greater humanitarian crisis than whatever may happen in 'you know where', I personally think this is a disgrace...

Does anyone out there have any opinions or first hand experiences... if anyone thinks globalisation is a good thing, or necessary, what do you purport should be done about this crisis?

All comments are welcome...

Globalisation is only a good idea as long as the benefits flow both ways - otherwise it's just a bunch of strangers fleecing you instead of your own beloved government.

Well, our lot seem to be doing the fleecing at the moment... of ourselves and everybody else...

When the recent Nestle/Ethiopia/£6 million thing broke last year, I sent an email out to all my friends telling them to boycott the company - if they weren't boycotting them already for the baby milk thing.

Quite a few of the replies I got - and some comments on h2g2 on this subject - were of the opinion that the main cause of the problems (famine, AIDS etc) were corrupt African governments and that they needed to sort themselves out first.

I don't suppose this view is entirely surprising, but it does seem an odd way to see the 'cause and effect' of the problems in many African countries.

I don't know too much about this subject (I have a huge 'to buy' list of relevant books) but I suspected that attitude was prevalent.. there is media coverage of a sort, but never enough and certainly not focusing on the problems caused by western/rich trade practices. It seems to only be those who buy Coldplay albums who have any idea... but why this somewhat lazy and casual attitude? It's a bit outdated isn't it?

Cancel the Debt!

I don't agree with globalisation. It's thinly unregulated laissez faire/extreme capitaliasm which leads to the virtual slavery of Latin Americans, Africans and Asians in sweat-shops working on starvation wages to make designer label clothing (e.g. NIKE) as well as tea and coffee which are thenm sold at riducolosly high prices (especially designer labels) in the West while the workers who made them were payed mere pence per item...all supported by Western Governments and--in many cases--the IMF/World Bank.

In fact, apparently HALF of humanity (3 BILLION, i.e. THOUSAND MILLION, people) lives on less than two US dollars per day (ca. £1.30).

It seems to be the devils choice certainly for most 3rd world workers... work independantly and have western trade policies restrict your market as you have to sell at higher prices than protected western companies, or work for western companies and get paid a pittance whilst financing the wealthy...

It seems industrail revolution working practices were banned in Europe and North America, but it's fine for the Africans/Asians and South Americans....

Yeah, maybe if Europe hadn't colonised Africa and oppressed the Africans Africa's present-day governments wouldn't be corrupt, or full of freedom-fighters-turned-dictators like Mugabe. (Thank God South Africa didn't turn out like that after their liberation from Western-supported apartheid).

As far as I can make out it would seem to be, in the majority of cases, the policies, and politics of the 'developed world', most especially USA (I'm not trying to bash American's, but this does appear to be the case).
For example reperations .

I think it is important that more people get involved in this debate because it needs to mature somewhat.

Whilst I absoutely support third world debt relief at the moment, I don't think that it is sustainable in the long term. You can't carry on giving companies the simple choice of either pursuing the debtor country through the courts or writing off the debt because protest groups have spent months campaigning against them.

Governments and corporations need to look at ways in which they can help, promote good practice and instigate fair and moral policies. This does not necessarily mean losing money in the long term - something that corporations simply have not grasped yet.

Consumers also need to take a bit of responsibility. If the media made more of this issue, perhaps more consumers would stop to think about where their mange tout comes from, or where their old computer gets "recycled" (i.e. dumped).

"I think it is important that more people get involved in this debate because it needs to mature somewhat."

I'd agree with that. Unfortunately it is unlikely to do so from me as my knowledge of many of the facts is sadly limited... If anyone out there knows a thing or too on this topic then please start contributing... I'd like to know more...

One place to find out information is http://www.jubilee2000uk.org

... I'll read it when I get home.

If you really want to do something to help, then certainly start by lobbying your Mp to get behind the programme to cancel Third World Debt.

In the meantime, when buying your tea and coffee, go for Fair Trade marked brands - they are easy to spot. Keep an eye out for other products that are Fair Trade marked as well - I buy FT Bananas - they are smaller than the others, but they taste better (and thats not just smugness talking.)

Unlike the old days, when FT was a thing that you could only get from Oxfam for a small fortune, most Supermarkets now stock FT products and they cost a matter of *pennies* more than continueing to support Nestle does...

Funnily enough, I read today that my MP, the Liberal Democrat Steve Webb, is a strong proponent of ending 3rd world poverty... My partners step-father also happens to be the Liberal Democrat deputy mayor of my home town.. in the same constituency...

I think I may have to broach the subject at the next family gathering...

" I thought this forum could do with an alternative 'Big Debate' that we can all discuss freely"

I'm lookign forward to discussing this topic freely.

Let's start with:

The root causes (there are many) include:
- a history of corruption dating back to colonial times
- a basic impression of African countries an their inhabitants as "a long way away" in the minds of the man in the street
- a single stereotype impression of life there - people are starving, basically. Not EVERYONE is. Too many, admittedly, but it's not the whole continent
- a holdover impression of the continent as less 'civilised' whatever that means to you.
- the basic lack of easily exploitable resources, which prevents any western countries from bothering with them.

That do for starters?

H.

On today's BBC News:

"The head of the United Nation's food agency has accused western countries of ignoring Africa because of the war in Iraq.

"As much as I don't like it, I cannot escape the thought that we have a double standard," he said.

"How is it we routinely accept a level of suffering and hopelessness in Africa we would never accept in any other part of the world? We simply cannot let this stand," he asked the United Nations security council."

I thought that I would resurrect this topic, as it ground to a halt so quickly. I think the biggest problem is that people think nothing can be done. The average person will give on Comic Relief day but still feel that Africa is completely hopeless, full of corruption and a bottomless pit for money and aid.

It's natural, I feel like that sometimes. There's no outrage, like there is against Saddam's regime. Even Mugabe (this generation's African bogey man) has been forgotten.

I'd like to see some righteous anger being brought to this issue, or at least some righteous debate. James Morris is right - we hear about war, famine, massacres, AIDs in African countries and it barely registers.

I've heard people postulate that Africa isn't "ready" for democracy yet, that you can't "force" democracy on these types of societies. I think that is complete b*ll*cks.

I think it's probably the only hope - flawed as it is. Why should we be clamouring to broker peace in the Middle East, but get all sensitive about brokering peace in Africa?

If you're worried about neo-colonial overtones, send the Scandanavians. We can still back them up politically and financially.

Indeed. I was appalled to see in today's Guardian that the estimated casualties in the Congo Civil War now amount to something like 4.5 million.

Those with long memories will recalll that UN intervention in the Congo was prevented by the US exercising their veto. Presumably 4.5 million dead doesn't constitute a sufficient reason to be added to the Axis of Evil where the N could operate with US support...

As with all problems, the Africa situation has a lot of sources. They date back to the various European empires, who drew up boundaries that made no sense for the people, and created economic policies that were designed for the benefit of the home countries. Then, suddenly, they left. The power vacuum was occupied by the guys with the most guns, and nobody had the sort of education required to run the apparatus the empires had created. Then they embarked on a lot of wars.

The Western response to the hunger has actually exacerbated the situation. I'll have to check my source later this evening for the details, but as I recall, a UK NGO came to a specific African nation and tried to help them create an economy around growing peanuts... despite the fact that peanuts didn't grow well there, and there isn't enough of a market. The biggest market in the industrialized world for peanuts is the US, but they already grow a lot themselves. That's just one example of Western advice being ill-advised.

Then there's the food and monetary aid... which only goes to the hands of the dictators. By holding the food and siphoning off the money, we only help them consolidate their power.

The diamond market is awash with black-market gems dug up at gunpoint to finance these genocides. If you want to do something that will really make a difference, boycott them entirely, or insist on EGL certified stones.

The globalization of markets is actually such a tiny part of the problem. One problem that's been ignored about globalization is that it's a two-edged sword. Not only does it create slave-labor conditions in foreign countries (easy to fix if the countries took an interest in labor regulation, but not likely to happen), but it also takes semi-skilled labor positions away from the industrialized nations. Those jobs pay well in industrialized countries, and when the factory closes shop, whole towns are decimated. That labor pool is often forced to find a minimum-wage job in a fast-food restaurant. More people in the US are working two jobs and sharing households as a way to make ends meet. The concept of the housewife is a vanishing luxury.