h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

It occurs to me that the rhyme never specifies that Humpty is an egg. Does anyone know where this idea originated?

That's a very good question. I have some old books (very old) with illustrations of the egg on the wall... Who first illustrated Humpty Dumpty?

I do seem to recall reading a second verse, in some version or other, that did mention him being an egg, but since I've only seen it in the one place, I suspect that it was added on by the book's author and probably isn't part of the original rhyme. I agree that it was probably whoever the first person to illustrate it was.

Hmmmm... Now that you mention it, I do think the original tale (like so many others) -was- longer than just the one verse that has gotten passed on. Perhaps that would explain it, if I could find one of those very old books. Most of the nursery rhymes in that book have longer versions....

I have a book called 'Who really killed Cock Robin?', which attempts to go back to the 'original' versions of 'nursery rhymes'. If the book's author is to be believed, most 'nursery rhymes' (and Christmas Carols, for that matter) were originally folk songs that got bowdlerised. The author reckons that 'Humpty Dumpty' was probably a poem (one verse only, I think) about a girl who lost her virginity! The words have been somewhat changed, but the idea of not being able to restore things to their original state is still there.

I seem to remember something on one of the regional news programs a while back that was doing a feature on people who recreate old battles.

I think this said that 'Humpty Dumpty' was actually a cannon up on castle battlements or something, and the good guys had to take it out with catapults and the like. Hence 'Humpty Dumpty had a great fall'.

Or was it all a strange dream....?

Well, I seem to remember reeading that it's supposed to be an analogy for the fall of the roman empire.
This sounds like the potential source for a thesis paper!

Hmmm... I'll bet when Humpty was sitting on that wall he never would have predicted that his demise would be the catalyst for such controversy!

But seriously...

Most nursery rhymes were passed down from word-of-mouth -- mothers and grandmother to babes -- until someone eventually learned to make little symbols on smoothish surfaces and wrote them down.

I've always seen Humpty in the egg format. Perhaps the verse really was written about the virginity topic, but some mideval parent illustrated the tale in such a way so as to prevent kids of four and five years of age from being subjected to that sort of matter.

Hey, just because these people didn't have running water doesn't mean that they weren't good parents.

Sadly, in todays world if you 'protect' your 4/5-year-olds from the facts of life, it could be too late for "The Birds and the Bees"...

I agree. There's really no simple answer to that one.

Though perhaps we could use Humpty Dumpty in sex education. The lesson could be applied in a number of ways, showing the permanency of sexual actions. In addition to the loss of virginity, one could also explain pregnancy through rhyme:

Humpty Dumpty lied in her bed,
Humpty Dumpty soon had to wed,
With a bun in the oven and no man to claim,
She married the bloke to avoid all the shame.

Or, perhaps, STDs:

Humpty Dumpty had a great time,
The night before was simply sublime,
But that itching and burning is now quite bothersome...
Guess Humpty shoulda worn a condom.

You get the idea. Perhaps someone should launch a massive "Mother Goose II" campaign in which all of our favourite nursery rhynmes are converted into helpful lessons on life (for an audience of children age seven and under).

Just kidding! What a twisted concept. I apologize in advance of I've offended anyone.

*chuckles* ... What a twisted, twisted mind.

But I suppose it might be better than the movie that a couple 1st graders described to me some years back -- that they had seen in school.

I often wondered how we were supposed to know Humpty was an egg, but I looked it up in Notes and Queries, and now I know...

Apparently, the rhyme was originally a Victorian riddle, i.e. the point was to guess what Humpty was. And the answer was that he's an egg.

Not very thrilling I realise, but then they didn't have TV in them days...

I suppose it's passable, though in the Victorian age he could as well have been nearly anything, including human.

All the king's horses and all the kings men
Couldn't put Humpty together again

I don't think they should have let the horses have first go.

LOL!~

bear in mind that the concept of sex being something to hide from children (or anyone else for that matter)is a victorian invention, and that it arose out of the desire of that period to seperate the private and public, the notion that exposure to obscenity could 'corrupt and deprave the weak and enfeebled' i.e. the working classes, women and children. 'pornography' is a word that did not exist before the 19th century.

before this desire to hide sex away as a private activity, it (sex) was not a private issue.

the concept that mediaeval parents would hide their children away from sex is innapropriate as sex was an open subject not a closed one. therefore, it is unlikely to be due to the desire of parents to shield there children from sex that this rhyme would have been constructed.

more likely is the political satire premise.

(King Richard III - according to Opie & Opie, 215 - the foremost researchers on folk tales and rhymes)

cheers all

And they said the flower children were evil. Don't tell them they were just being _very_ old-fashioned!

Just dug this out of the archives.
Humpty Dumpty was indeed a cannon, and came from Colchester. Unfortunately I can't remember the rest of the details but it fell off the city wall.
Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and Old King Cole also come from Colchester.Twinkle Twinkle being writen by two sisters living in the dutch quarter I think, Old king Cole slips my memory as well.