h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Charge for an ID Card linked to a DNA sample and offer inducements to carry it and people will flock to join the club.
eg.01 - Link your National Insurance to an ID Card - Reduced Icome Tax rates.
eg.02 - Link your Driving Licence to an ID Card - Reduce Road Tax
eg.03 - Link your TV Licence - Reduce the Fee
eg.04 - Link your Bank Account to an ID Card - Higher Interst Rates
eg.05 - Link your Mortgage to an ID Card - Lower Interest Rates
eg.06 - Link your Credit Card to and ID Card - Improved terms
eg.07 - Loyalty Bonuses for ID Card Holers (Declared in Annual Budget)
eg.08 - Show ID Card at Benefit Office - Jump the queue
eg.09 - Happy Hour in Pubs for ID Card Holders
eg.10 - Link your ID Card to the National Lottery - Special prizes
eg.11 - Special deals for Students and Pensioners who carry an ID Card.
Need I say more ?
... Ancient Brit

Hmmmm, maybe?
Is this your idea, and have you pitched it to anybody else?

I'm still thinking that the whole thing's a huge invasion of privacy. Isn't this just a bribary scam. Also, how much would you have to charge to recoup the benefits listed?

I actually think ID cards would be a good thing. I'm against a lot of those laws against privacy and such. But this particular one seems alright to me. The card should only contain "name, rank and number" like information. But in a society it seems to me to be quite important to be able to show who is a member and who isn't. So they don't get benefits unless they pay their taxes, we won't have that many illegal immigrants and we can see who should have a right to vote.

Hi Xanatic and It's all too much
As a Newbie I'm just testing reaction.
First the card for which the basic rules need to be set.
ie. What really needs to go on it. Start with as little as possible
just proof of identity. DNA - Fingerprints - Blood Group - Photograph
Then give perks for additional information.
Any business or organisation that wants extra info on it, should pay.
eg. If the government sees any advantage they should put up the perks.
If the banks gain any advantage then the banks should pay.
All that is needed is an incentive to get the ball rolling.
...Ancient Brit

From the point of view of someone who lives in a country with ID cards in general, for your average, law-abiding citizen, they are a good idea.... just having a single piece of ID accepted by all and sundry is far easier than in England, where to open a bank account you've got to produce your passport, last 18 electricity bills, mother's sister's birth cerfificate, anti-rabies vacination certificates, etc. ad infinitum.

Ours are just laminated cards with name, address, etc. on them though, not smart cards.

I must say, most of the arguements I've heard against ID cards seem to be based on the "they're all out to get me" paranoid point of view.

To be honest, I can't see the government putting your life history onto a smart card which you carry around with you though....
Imagine the results if someone figured out how to reprogramme the cards...

Medical records - Yes, this person has a valid legal reason to be perscribed heroin....

Social Security.... This person is unemployed with one hundred and seventy four children, please pay the appropriate child benefit.

Bank... This person has an impecible credit rating, feel free to give them as much money as they ask for.

etc. etc.

To be honest I'd think that all the information stored on an individual in the thousands of databases around the country would continue to be stored in the same way, just with an additional data field showing an ID number. Ok, theoretically, someone could get hold of information on you just by knowing your ID card number, but as it stands right now, if they knew your name and DOB and could break down the security systems, they could get the same information.

I've yet to see anyone come up with a reason I considered valid for not introducing an ID card system.
And even if it is difficult to proof the effectiveness of an ID card system in cracking down on benefit fraud, illegal immigration, football hooliganism, crime, etc., there are enough potential advantages of such a system to mean that it should be seriously considered.

Hi Whisky
I agree with what you say. The information is already available in one form or another. If any gain is to be made by collecting this information under on Identification Card/Number, then the Card Holder should gain some benefit from carrying it and using it.
It should be that simple. Carry a card - Derive the benefit
If you choose not to carry a card the choice is yours but - No benefit.
..Ancient Brit

*Start with as little as possible
just proof of identity. DNA - Fingerprints - Blood Group - Photograph*

This IS additional information!

I'm sorry if I come across as paranoid and suspicious, and I have nothing to hide, but my business is my own. ID cards are the first step towards a police state. I used to live with a couple of Spanish girls (as subscribers to my life will know!) and they told me that the Spanish police could and would stop people on the street and demand to see their ID cards. Even if you did have yours with you, there have been numerous occasions when the police *haven't* seen your ID card and people happen to fall down those slippery steps...

Each law which tightens up security and increases police powers chips away at our liberties. Any opportunity that a government has of keeping an eye on it's citizens it takes. September 11th, asylum seekers, benefit fraud, whatever. It has to stop somewhere, I think ID cards are a potent symbol of what power the government can have over us and I think it has become somewhat of a final stand for libertarians.

Anyway, why should I have to prove *anything* if I am innocent and have done nothing wrong? It's the implications and connotations of proving one's innocence that disturbs me. I know this is not directly the case, but it is one step towards it.

If the price of freedom is eternal vigilence then those who support ID cards are slacking off a great deal.

So, I'm paranoid if I don't trust the government? Sounds like common sense to me.

Ste

There is a Big Brother talking point you could go to.

"Mary, if you can't trust the goverments of the world, who can you trust?" - Albert Einstein

(Okay, it was Yahoo Serious. But he was playing Einstein.)

As I said, the only arguements against ID cards I seem to come across are the standard 'I'm not paranoid, everyone IS out to get me' type...

We could (and have in the past) go on forever arguing civil liberties), but to be honest, I've yet to see a single person on h2g2 who lives in a country where the carrying of ID cards is compulsory who considers it to be an affront to their civil liberties...
Have we all been brainwashed by our respective oppresive regimes?


*ping*
Jacques Chirac is a god
Jacques Chirac is a god
Jacques Chirac is a god
Jacques Chirac is a god
Jacques Chirac is a god
Jacques Chirac is a god
Jacques Chirac is a god
*ping*

*shakes head*
sorry, just heard a bell ring and I came over all funny their!

Sorry Ste and fords_prefect.
My view is the complete opposite to yours.
Do you have any form of identitiy whatsoever ?
Do you have a birth certificate, a marriage certificate, a driving licence, a tv licence, a credit card, a bank a account, a home address, an email address ? You possibly have a school report, a medical record, a police record --, an employment record, a CV, a busines card, a university degree, a family tree. Are you the member of any club ? In the end I feel sure that you will be given a death certificate ? (Will your grave have a headstone ?)
At the moment any claim for anonymity you may have has long gone.
I am fed up of using my driving licence as proof of my identity (I have now graduated to using my Bus Pass.. )
I want an ID card/CV of life that I can be proud of. A record that can be easily/readily accessed by me and anyone else who is interested. I would gladly carry the proof of such an identity. I have much to be proud of and like you I have nothing to hide. In days of old when I travelled abroad I carried my Britsh passport with pride.
...Ancient Brit - cfic (Campaign for Identity Cards)

It's OK Whisky
Calm down - We are on the same side. Honest.
...Ancient Brit

You don't need an ID card to flaunt you CV of life to the world. Juts put it on a t-shirt. Your medical record for example. You could walk down the street with your head held high wearing a t-shirt that says "I've got haemmoroids"

Yup, but we seem to be outnumbered.... time to circle the wagons I think...no one gets in without a valid ID

I can handle the idea of a card showing what your identity is. But I see no reason why it should be packed with medical record, criminal record, bank details and such. That should all be in different databases.

I tend to agree with you on that one Xanatic, but to be honest, I can't see any 'intelligent' government giving us access to all that information...., I imagine a better system would be that government agencies would use an ID card to access remote databases, which would be far more secure than just putting all that information on the card itself.
For example, you'd go into the social security offices, they'd swipe your card through a reader and it would automatically pull up your docs from their database. Leaving all the information on your card would be too risky. What would happen if you lost it?
Another example would be if the only copy of your medical records was on the card... the moment you managed to hack into the card you could change all of your medical details, change doctors and no-one would be any the wiser. Great for insurance fraud and getting a fire-arms certificate despite the fact you've been certified insane!

There are just too many risks in having all that information in one place and in your own hands. After all, what the government wants is increased security, handing out this information willy nilly would have the reverse effect.

Yep, that's what I imagined. And I think that the country I live in is civilized enough for nobody to fall down a flight of stairs because they didn't have an ID card.

"...the only arguements against ID cards I seem to come across are the standard 'I'm not paranoid, everyone IS out to get me' type..."

I don't think everyone is out to get me. I *do* think the marketing profession is out to get my data.

I foresee a situation where shops will start to want to "verify your identity" ("for your own security", of course) before they will accept a cheque or credit card from you. This will, of course, involve inserting your smart card into their machines which by that time will have enough processing power to grab the contents and decrypt your whole life history before you leave the premises.

The idea hinted at earlier, where everything still lives in the normal, secure databases where it has always lived, and your smartcard number just becomes a key into those databases seems much more acceptable in these days of broadband connectivity. The only things required on the actual card would be your fingerprints, blood type and an image of your retina, all of which could be gathered from you in a matter of seconds anyway (and will, if your identity is ever seriously questioned...) so are only different to a photograph by a matter of degree.

You've got it in your last paragraph Peet
You only need some proof of identity put onto a smart card.
You could then use the card for your benefit. Giving you the right to vote, the right to benefit, the right to fair treatment the right to all those rights (Civil or otherwise) that some people claim but do not always deserve. It would be your big stick giving you the right of access to all files and databases (Goverment or otherwise) holding information that concerns you.
Get it Xanatic. Its not to flaunt it's to proove that you are who/what you say you are.
I see from your journal that you are "Someone who doesn´t believe in anything unless he has had proof." From what you say here, wearing the appropriate tee shirt would be adequate proof.

"I am whatever I say I am, If I wasn't then why would I say I am!?" - Eminem

You just talked about how you wanted a "CV of life" that anybody interested could go have a look at.