h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

With the situation in Israel this question needs to be discussed.

One thing I know about jewry is that it strives to be "Ein Mensch"; being human.And as I recently came across this old interwiev with Ariel Sharon I must say that I have a very hard time understanding how anyone can support a man like that.Translating the full iterwiev from danish to english takes too long so I will only translate the most appaling part of it.

This is What Ariel Sharon said to Israeli journalist Amos Oz in the newspaper "Davar" on december 17, 1982.


"Even today I am willing to sign up as a volunteer to do the dirty work for Israel, to kill as many arabs as possible, to deport them, throw them out, burn them, make the rest of the world hate us, pull away the carpet underneath the feet(Don`t know if this is the right translation of a danish metaphor, but i hope it is clear enough.TD.) of those jews who lives in the Diaspora, so that they are forced to come crying and running to us.Even if it means that a couple of synagogues will be bombed here and there; I don´t care."
"And I am totally indifferent if you put me before a Nürnberg-court and throw me in jail for life."
"Hang me as a warcriminal, if you want to.Then afterwards, you can polish your jewish consiousness and step into that club of civilized nations, that are fresh and healthy.What you don´t understand is that the dirty work of zionism is not done yet - far from.




Take that.

My assertion is that he has not become milder since then, and therefor might be the biggest of Israels enemies right now.

As I stated before i have a hard time understanding how anyone saying things like this is not shunned from the international society, and by people in general.But especially the international society has dissapointed me in this matter; not coming hard down on one of it´s members when it F***S up.It is very sad indeed.

And why is it that when people like that tell about their evil plans years in advance so everybody had a fair warning, they are still elected to do their business, now telling themselves they are right because "the people" are behind them?ALARMING!!!

T´mershi Duween.


....strolls off, still wondering....

Thanks for your contribution, T'mershi Duween.

Someone will be along in a moment to move this conversation to somewhere where it will attract more attention from other researchers.



Amy the Ant

Hi

I am going to move this to Ask h2g2 in order that it can be discussed.

Abi

Editorial Note: This conversation has been moved from 'Thanks for Registering with h2g2 - Welcome!' to 'Ask the h2g2 Community'.

Everybody who dares critisize Israel are called anti-semitic and anti-zionists. That's why nobody dares to.

Sharon's comments don't really surprise me. It's sad that Israel has reached the level where a man likes this runs it's government.

I don't think people who crticise Israel should be afraid of being described as anti-semitic. Nobody who would call someone who criticises Israeli anti-semitic could back it up. It's just a cheap, unjustifiable, smear-word. Like people who call all conservatives "fascists" or people who call social democrats "communists".

'Semite' is a word that is actually used rather inaccurately much of the time. This is the Collins dictionary's definition:

'Semite: A member of the group of Caucasoid peoples who speak a Semitic language, including the Jews and Arabs as well as the ancient Babylonians, Assyrians and Phoenicians.'

Maybe a little pedantic, but there you go, eh?

I think killing Palestinians is a great business for the Israeli masters of war. They get $3 billion a year from the US in order to do just that. In the past 3 weeks the Israeli army has cut power and water to hospitals, bombed refugee camps, and destroyed houses, murdering innocent civilians. Many, including presidend Bush would like us to think that terrorists are evil and attack without reason, therefore the Israelis are only defending themselves. But if my entire community were being destroyed, you can bet I'd be throwing rocks at the tanks. I know there are Israelis who are agains the incursions. Unfortunately they are not the ones in charge. Sharon and his masters of war are. It's quite profitable for them to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state.

Thought post 1 might get moderated, as I can´t quiet figure out the rules on quotes at H2G2, but I am happy to see the discussion getting started.

TD.

US policy towards Israel seems to be changing. I still think they're treating them with kid gloves too much, but I don't think they'll be giving them carte blanche and a big fat paycheque to doo what they want any more.

Palestinians also profit from the Middle East race war. Iraq (and no doubt other governments/individuals) offer large cash awards to the families of suicide bombers.

My family are completely torn over the Israeli/Palestinian situation. My father (a capitalist, facist, racist, chauvenist) whole-heartedly supports the Israelis whatever they may do, whereas the rest of us totally support the Palestinians and are horrified at how the 'Western' World is allowing the slaughter of hundreds of innocent civilians under the pretext of wiping out terrorism.

As a mother of 4 boys, if I saw my homeland invaded, my house destroyed and my (innocent) sons either killed or marched away, I would want to retaliate - the Israelis are only creating more hatred/terrorism and suicide bombers not less.

My blinkered, bigotted father claims suicide bombers ae promised 28 virgins when they enter 'heaven', (however he says it's very shortsighted of them as you can "only use a virgin once!!")

72 virgins I think it is.

"My blinkered, bigotted father claims suicide bombers ae promised 28 virgins when they enter 'heaven', (however he says it's very shortsighted of them as you can "only use a virgin once!!")"

Your blinkered, bigotted father is right. They are told they will recieve 28 virgin females in heaven if they "martyr" themselves as suicide bombers.

You and your father are both wrong about the conflict, in my opinion. Neither side is worth taking in the middle east, both have been reduced to the status of uncaring, self-righteous and self-justifying murderers. The only people worth worrying about in the Middle East are those who want to violence to stop without the obliterration/subjugation of the "other side". That number is probably getting smaller every day.

"72 virgins I think it is."

Well, whatever number it is

Well, we even had an argument over the number of virgins.

My father's unwavering stance has caused particular family problems as my brother is married to an Arab.

My stance comes partially from the fact that a British friend of mine was blown up and seriously injured (and 5 of his colleagues were killed) by the Isrealis whilst trying to help restore peace to the region years ago. The Israelis never apologised for the atrocity, whilst the Palestinians have always acknowledged the sacrifice the British men were making for the sake of peace.

It is very easy to say both sides are wrong and they deserve what they get, but the Americans used to say the same thing about the IRA bombing Britian, when we all know those being killed were completely innocent.

Seeing that if the crisis in the Middle East continues to escalate, Britian shall inevitable become involved at some stage, it is probably sensible to figure out who in your mind is less 'in the wrong'.

I think that this is a case where it is pretty nearly impossible to say who is the "least wrong" - both sides appear to have committed some pretty atrocious acts, and I - who doesn't really believe in the cause of either side - can't support one or the other.
It's hard to see, when you're in the middle of something, how it started, and where things went wrong - we will probably be able to do so in about 20 years when this time is history and we have the benefit of hindsight, but not now.
So I don't feel that a solution is to apportion blame, or even justice - not on a massive scale, and only later perhaps for individuals - but to create a firm compromise, backed up with the force of the WHOLE international community. More than a little difficult at all.

None of the fanatics on either side are interested in solutions; they just want to destroy each other. There are normal peaceful people living in the middle east as well, contrary to what the media present. It is for them that we should seek to end the violence.

Amen to that

Personally, though, I think I'll dig a new bomb-shelter, put a tin helmet on, run a saltire up the flagpole outside and hide in the shelter, waiting for the Big End to come

Or am I being melodramatic/pessimistic?

This is a bit of a topic drift, but... Does anyone know where this thing about the 72 virgins comes from? Is it true or just something that got invented by some hack shortly after the WTC/Pentagon attacks, and subsequently spread around?

"It's hard to see, when you're in the middle of something, how it started"

Um. How about the occupation of Palestine in 1967 (hope that date is right - though it might be 68). Not sure about the Isreali position, so someone please correct me, but they might take it back to when the 'holy land' was promised to them by God in about 3004 BC - at teatime I think.
Some writer compared Jenin to Auschwitz which is obviously rubbish, but I do see parallels with the Jewish Ghettos that Germany used as a method of containment before they started wholesale slaughter.
IMHO Sharon should be indicted as a war criminal.