h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi and helps herself to , hope you don't mind

Men lie and women lie some less than others. Vaguely uncomfortable with the title. Lying is not gender specific. We could even it up by having a title why do all women lie and compare reasons for lying and see if there is a gender difference in types of lies told.

But women are definatly the survivors and I think this is down to their mental resilience and toughness. My own very personal theroy is that through evolutionary time women have had it harder, we're born tougher and we've developed better survival strategies than men. It pisses me off no end when we keep discussing the evolution of man when I think the more pertinant quesion is the evolution of women. Having children practically disadvanages women in the survivor stakes, practically they would always have to do more for less (on the account that women share the results of their effort), but it didn't disempower them (how, why and when that happened preoccupies me quite alot) once upon a time women looked like they were in the ascendant but it all went pear shaped (its a little story I like to tell myself). While they were practically more disadvanged surviving for two or more puts extra fire in the belly, an evolutionary drive if you like. Women had more of a need to develop intelligent strategies to get them through life which might explain our extra brain power. . It seems more likely to me that homo habilis (handy man) was much more likely handy woman. That women had more of a need for community and organisation which led to society, their more involved role in child rearing and the extended period of childhood that we have meant that we passed on more than surival skills but history which leads to culture. Their relationships with men, and vice versa were probably always quite complex, lying, along with a certain degree of manipulation to get a individual to act in a way that's to our advantage has always been part of our interactions with each other. Some of the biggest whoopers are probably told (by men and women)in a realtionship that involves sex. I thnk men and women have some fundamentally different perspectives on life as well as similar ones, we're different but equal(or would be ideally) and all that, the only way to move forward ,resolve our issues, or any issue is to communicate honestly.

Kind of keeping to the subject but ambling about quite alot so will leave it there. Thanks for the

Love Peanut xx

*running the same risk of taking this somewhat off the original topic - but hey, this _is_ h2g2...*

I think a few of the key things are that the notion of men and women being (or needing to be seen as) the same is wrong.

Before going on, I haste to say (I am worried about the s) that I fully agree in men and women being equal, though...

The theory on why we do/think/feel/etc differently that I like best is the one about the "stone age brain". Simply put, at the time when Man (the species, not the gender) went through the evolutionary steps leading to just about the current form, men were hunting and responsible for getting the prey, thus the food, back to camp. The women on their part, were responsible for "the rest" - that is, keeping the camp in working order, tending to the kids, etc etc.

As an aside, some claim that this is still the case

The implication (warning - this is on a general level!): Men are on average better at concentrating on one task at a time (since hunting required that) and to find their way from point A to point B (since getting the prey back required that...).

Women, on the other hand- still on average - "multitasks" a lot better, fare better in organisational tasks, etc.

To get back to topic - maybe this suggests that men simply lie better (as this requires concentrating on the one thing that a good lie is) ???

I don't whinge. I don't wear make up (because I can't be bothered), I occasionally wear heels and sometimes a bra but I don't see that as lying, it reflects the mood I'm in the image of me is part of me, an expression of me I'm not trying to decieve you that that's all of me, or even all me....

Peanut xx

I liked your brief dally with 'honesty' earlier in this thread. The expectation of mendacity depresses me, as it is so counter-productive. [No, I won't bore you with a moral argument. ] There is also an interesting (to me! ) slant to honesty - being honest with yourself.

When your boss asks you what you thought of the prospective new team member, tell him he's so impressive that you would feel your position in the team would be threatened if he joined. Do this instead of pretending that you have other objections! Be honest with yourself. Then proceed to justify why you are worth much more to the team than the new candidate, so they'd do better to retain you and turn him down.

At the least, be honest with yourself, even if you can't/won't come right out and tell everyone else.

Just my two pennyworth.

Pattern-chaser, a man...

"Who cares, wins"

OK girls... sorry women,
relax, I was just making a joke, adding a little levity.

I didn't mean to make you get all defensive.

Face it, we all lie. Every one of us. For different reasons, some good some bad.

And don't any of you say that you have never lied or will never lie, cause face it, that will be a lie.

A girl I know visited a guy in Australia. He was 30 instead of 24 as he had said. But she met him in real life, not in a chatroom.

Stiffdrink, I need one, nope i deserve one, finally finished my work.

I'm not throwing , but that's a very male perspective of what went on. Now technically I think we are allowed to make this up given that their no proof either way. My feeling are that women did the bulk of the food gathering and that includes some hunting. I'm not disputing that men did too, and they had more opportunity over a lifetime to organise a time consuming mission with some highish risks to go for a large and impressive quarry. Hunting and meat eating is clearly important to us as a species but the importance of the big hunts are fishermens tales, overstated and embellished.

Women not men, probably did the bulk of the food collecting on a day to day basis for collective consumption we did not spend our time waiting around for the men to come home with the food, pottering around tending to the camp and the kids. Maybe that's a little but I'm meaning this to be a harmless food fight . Also I worry that there is a tad of women 'just tended the camp and the kids' there is no 'just' about that. That tomato is not aimed at you Keeper of stiff drinks personally, I just don't believe in the assumption that women were dependant on men for food they couldn't afford to be. There was a collective responsibilty for it and women took most of that responsibility. Child rearing, language, socialisation(for example) are important aspects of our evolutionary history, just as important as who put the food on the table (so to speak) the first of these particulary were/are a woman's domain and maybe we would find different evolutionary scenrios from the 'me Tarzen you Jane' one that we have at the moment if we think about it from a womans perspective.

Love Peanut xx

not offended and I do lie but rarely, my biggest lie is the one that I tell to my daughter, ever so occasionally I go to visit my sister and nephew while she is at school, I omit to tell her that inforamation and speak in code if I'm ever to refer about my plans within her earshot. I do feel abit bad about it, but she doesn't want to go to school and it seems tight to tell that I doing something that she would really enjoy. Its the only lie I tell her, and I mean to 'fess up to it at some point. Sprogg I shall say I have lied to you I dunno five times over a lifetime when for a few hours on a Monday I wasn't at home I was in Boston Tea Party drinking I hope she'll forgive me Love Peanut xx

I think the general opinion is that in hunter-gatherer societies, the women do gather the bulk of the calories, whilst the men do most of the hunting.
Of course, there are also environments like the seashore gathering can be an efficient way of collecting high-quality foodstuffs - shellfish, crabs, etc,.

In a standard hunter-gatherer society, one reason for division of labour is simple - if hunting is generally more dangerous than gathering, it makes sense for men to do it, since evolutionarily speaking, they're more expendable. Assuming men can gather more calories than they consume and so aren't a net burden, a tribe with 10 adult men and 30 adult women can reproduce nearly as well as one with 30 men and 30 women, and roughly 3 times better than a tribe with 30 men and 10 women.

Zorpheus, I appreciated you were joking, I was having a joke in return! A truth joke though! I actually love jokes which are stereotypical about the sexes, I'm not about to get offended by humour!

another question, why do men seem to be so much more forgetful than women?? Is it cos they are not all that multifuncional?

Yes. Men are also ignorant and self-centered. That's why men don't listen.

I'm sorry, what were you saying?

Men are stupid and selfish, come on now you can come up with better reasons then that to rationalize why men don't listen to your endless prattling.

Men, being maybe a little more focussed (obsessive?) do *listen*, but often just don't remember things they consider entirely irrelevant, like who (including themselves) wore what clothes at a particular wedding.

You're joking again right?

Offers and (ran out of food cos of the food fight)

Love Peanut xx

Peanut said <>

Yes, I think so...

<>

I disagree. Hunting is a time-consuming business. If it works, the reward is significant, but if not, it wastes precious time and energy for nothing. Women gathered and/or farmed, to ensure starvation was kept at bay. And they took care of the kids as well.

Women provided most of the food, as you say, and men provided the bonus of meat when/if they could. Or so I believe.

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

We can agree to differ but I'm sure that women did hunt, probably not in the same way as men did and I'm almost certain that children as well as women fished. Men probably did quite a bit of that too, on a time for time thing though I think we might have caught more (just asking for a )

Women could have been much more opportunist when it came to hunting, being more dependant on the circumstances on the day, whereas for men they could make priortity of the day, for most of the days of the year, women couldn't. I do agree on the expendable point, men were more expendable than women therefore it makes sense for them to hunt. Women however had the much greater need for food security. There are also a number of risks to them to totally relying on thier menfolk on meat, first they might be unsuccessful, no food, or delays in getting food, so you have loads of meat for a couple of days and then none for a few more in a bad week, secondly they are more likely sustain injury or worse die, no more labour (they are not that expendable especially to individual women) because of the higher risk hunting that men did. Worst case scenerio five of yer blokes get taken over a cliff with a wooly mammoth (or something), it pays women and the community for them to keep their hand even if only on a part time basis.

Women would probably take less risks in their hunting worst outcome would be that they'd fail and lose the dinner they were hoping for but they wouldn't lose their lives for it (often )

This so so off the topic I just have these scenerios in my head, you've done your gathering the kids are entertained you had a nice fish barbeque with the girls and sprogs. Feeling kind of energetic, why wouldn't women want to try their luck? They leave the kids with other women and off they go to have some 'grown up child-free time'.

Or you are mooching around gathering, and luck just with you there is a tasty bit of meat just ripe for the picking, would any self respecting woman with a couple kids to feed not give it a shot. If they didn't then someting was really wrong then. In a sense we were never empowered or had been disempowered. But that's just me its kind of a romantic notion or a feeling I have that we have lost something, not just women, all of us, lost or forgotton or maybe we refuse to remember something fundamental about being human. Wierd huh?

Then the is the girl(s) in a generation, gladiator girl whose just damn good at the hunting thing.

Too much Buffy that's my problem. There'd also be a few thoughtful men around who after the slaying would think to also gather on their way home for apple source to go with the boar and a pudding as they weren't otherwise engaged in carrying the dead thing home


Ho hum I should go,

Love Peanut xx

My old man used to be a wonderful liar.It would take me weeks,sometimes months for the penny to drop and to realise he had fed me a tall tale.Eventually I learned to just discount most of what he told me.Then his memory started to fail(as it does)so now he has taken to moaning and complaining as his new art form.He's getting really good at it.However after nearly 19 years with my daughter I'm immune to moaning and it passes me by.

Hunting: the understanding I have is that food was hard to come by in the times we're discussing, and 'opportunist' hunting was the fondest dream of hungry humans! I.e. there were no spontaneous opportunities to grab a passing animal; you had to seek them out. I totally agree with you about the likelihood of success in hunting trips (low ), which is why the women's contribution was indispensable. The expendability stuff seems reasonable too.

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

I'm thinking about this way too much and probably do some reading to get to grips with timelines again I was thinking about environment though, survival anywhere was/is challanging but very challanging environments (like extremely cold ones) would make it more likely that men totally did the hunting. 'Cept for the occasional exceptions.

Personally I think the need to have some grown up child free time at least is pretty primal, we do raise the most demanding infants on the planet I should think that odd afternoon chasing wildlife would have been a good way of productively dealing with those ya-yas

Love Peanut xx

Who in no way hunts, and is practically veggie