h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Jesus also said you had to hate your parents to follow him, but I digress...

World hunger is not caused by a shortage of food. In the United States, food excess is so great that farmers can't stay in business without the government's help. Prices are too low. So in order to raise prices, the government pays certain landowners NOT to grow crops (ironically, the people who collect this subsidy usually had no inclination to grow anything that nature didn't plant there). Excess crops are bought up by the government, and distributed to the poor here (USDA food programs) and abroad, through charity programs.

So why do people still go hungry? Distribution. In African countries especially, governments use hunger as a weapon to keep themselves in power. In order to function in a foreign country, the charities have to deal with...the local government. What the government doesn't steal outright gets directed to people who don't need it, or stored in sheds where the hungry can't get to it.

What does it all mean? If you want to do something about world hunger, have a power lunch with your local legislator. Go ahead and order the steak.

Optimists will blandly claim that it's always good to be alive, but summer most definitely has advantages. Food tastes better. You're insane if you think anything beats sliced cucumber and radishes in a bowl of vinegar with lots of salt at the ready.

Even vegetarians stop looking so miserable, although it's true that one of the most pitiful sights of the modem age is a vegetarian at a barbecue. Steak. Sausages. Chops. Chooks. Shish kebabs. Burgers. Prawns. Fish. Fantastic.

The thing I think you have to focus on here is that while, yes, for the effort involved in producing one really good steak you could instead produce enough rice and beans to feed a couple of families is this :

Steak tastes really really nice and beans don't.

I eat meat because I would feel I would be insulting nature if I failed to use my pointy teeth and only used the grindy ones at the back.

I have to say, when all is said and done, the original article wasn't actually supposed to be a particularly serious and even-handed definition of Vegitarianism. It was a humourous look from one slightly erratic point of view, very much in keeping with the spirit of the Guide, and (I felt) seriously funny.

You don't take everything in h2g2 too literally I hope?!

Dear Prune lady/ man - Have you had a sense of humour bypass? The original article seemed to me deliberately provoking in a humourous way...

By the way many of us meat eaters DO know what is on our plates. Guess what? We know how they are killed, we know about the cattle trucks and we know about the tiny cages. We still choose to eat it, I am sure you think that is abhorrent but try not to be so judgemental, its what you are asking others not to be about you.

Secondly what complete bollox about vegetarians eating more varied meals.. I know so many who exist on a vary boring diet with little variation.... chips and chips and more chips or lots of one type of meal... same as I know lots who eat varied meals, as with meateaters...

I LOVE that quote from the carnivorous restaurant owner.... very good...

And yes, I think the "We kill the whales for fun" T Shirt is provoking. It's a backlash to all those holier than thou, do-gooder attitudes that get shoved down throats all the time.

"If only you knew how nasty they are to the poor cows you wouldnt eat them, if only you knew how bad for you that was you wouldnt do it, if only you supported our cause these evil people wouldnt get away with it...." Doesnt it get boring to be morally right all the time...???

Rubie as for veggies not criticising meat eaters at meals but getting criticised themselves, you obviously live on a different planet from me. The amount of times I have been out and have had a "gentle and caring and earth loving and obviously morally right veggie" chastise me for my unthinking selfish attitude for eating meat.... I actually find there are few occasions when I go out and someone criticises a veggie for being a veggie but a lot of times a veggie makes pooey faces at a meat eaters dish. This is very offensive.

Hurgle Thumdilly your point is excellent, I am sure veggies live longer as many turn to veg'ism as a healthier lifestyle so there are more healthy generally and less likely to do a whole range of unhealthy things.... Good for veggies, I personally am far too lazy and fond of dead flesh to be healthy but for those who make the effort go the rewards...

Also thanks to Element who wants meat eaters to be tolerant and understanding of veggies and comes up with a lovely sweeping generalisation " most meat eaters are ignorant
and intolerant". That was illuminating. Now I see how I can be more tolerant, I can just follow your example, NOT.

Chocolatarian I seriously like the sound of....

To conclude, I very very very seldom say anything to my veggie friends because as far as I am concerned being veggie is as valid a lifestyle choice as any other and it doesnt affect me in anyway but I felt I ahd to reply as there seem to be so many veggies here ranting about nasty meat eaters and insulting them whilst doing exactly that themselves....
It's basically what Smurf said, fanatics get up my nose... on any side of any argument...

Half of my response here is a backlash against the some of the holier than thou comments above... When not confronted with such self pitying drivel I seldom think about veggies one way or another...

I only came to the post because I noticed Rosencrantz wrote a few interesting posts and I was following his posts to see what other witty stuff he wrote...

Ciao

I would have thought that the best reason for not eating turtles was their general endangeredness, more than anything else.

I certainly wouldn't have a problem eating turtle if it had been farmed in a "let's not make yet another species extinct" kind of way. And of course if it tasted good (it probably tastes like chicken).

Maybe I'm just odd. I'd have no problem with eating cat either - again, deliberately farmed ones, not just some poor stray that's been kidnapped (catnapped? no, that's something else isn't it...)

Actually my only hangup about eating humans is I guess you could argue that you shouldn't really farm sentient beings... if a person actively wanted to be eatn, however, surely that would be more moral than eating a cow that couldn't express an opinion (shades of RatEofU there!)

Kaptain Kavey, have you noticed the natural phenomena of meat-eating females having pertier (compact, tight) breasts and bottoms. These adorable women also break wind less often.

Hi L00ny...

Um... I eat LOTS of meat and my boobs are fleshy and humungous... so humungous that unfortunately gravity stops them being perk and they need over shoulder boulder holders....

Ah welll

To anyone who objects to animal consumption on a purely moral basis...

How can you be so cruel? Do not plants have consciousness? Do they not stretch their leaves toward the sunny places, and their roots to the wet places? Do they not grow stronger and larger when spoken kindly to, and entertained with music? And when you eat a plant...IT IS STILL ALIVE! At least they have the decency to put the cow out of its misery before grinding it up into your burger, but the tomato slice, after sufferng the horrible torture of the knife, is still alive as you chomp down! I for one am appalled at the lack of moral virtue in this thread. I leave you now with the words of Reel Big Fish, in their tune "Vegitarian"

"How can I sleep...when carrots are bleeding, plants are screaming, and tomatoes cry?
You said its not so bad, they're only vegetables, that's what you said
Maybe I'm a murderer but I'm hungry and they're better off dead."

The Vegetarianism article neglects to mention a certain type of vegetarianism. Vegetarianism because you just don't like the taste of meat. Not a moral objection, but an aesthetic one.

My friend Andrew was raised by vegetarian parents (Seventh Day Adventists, they were). They had a moral objection to eating meat. He doesn't. But because he wasn't fed meat growing up, he just can't stand the taste of it. So, he's a vegetarian.

Personally, I do believe in vegetarianism in theory, but there are too many meat-based foods that I really like! So I call myself a non-practising vegetarian. Kind of the opposite of Andrew.

Anyway...

Forget what your history teacher told you; Hitler was NOT a vegetarian. It is an incredibly persistant myth, but a myth nonetheless. At certain times in his life he was on a vegetarian diet for health reasons. Dr. Gobbels, the Minister of Propaganda, took advantage of this by making Hitler look like a saintly figure who didn't want to hurt anyone or anything. The reality of the matter, however, was that der Fuhrer loved meat, and would often hide sausage under a thick blanket of sauce, so no one would notice.

Apparently, I caught this article a little on the late side. There are many excellent points made here by BOTH sides of the argument. I am a morally driven vegetarian, but I respect the choices of others, and never argue my reasons unless asked to. I agree that to be self-righteous about it and then complain about being oppressed is very hipocritical. That said, I feel like Douglas Adams with the "42" questions, because everywhere I eat with someone, they ask why I don't eat meat. I think most of them are just curious, but it really gets annoying after a while. And I don't fit the stereotype either: I don't touch soy, and I don't give a rat's ass about eating right. My average day's meals usually consist of a bread based food or a pasta of some type, or on occasion a nice ethnic dish, but my real passion is dessert. My philosophy about interaction between veg's and non-veg's: I'll do what I feel is right, and you do what you feel is right. I may not agree with you, but it's not my place to judge you. Take the same attitude towards me and we'll get on famously.

One last thing: Plant people--Yes, plants respond to basic stimuli. So do viruses. Would you let yourself die so a virus could live? We need to eat something, and plants are NOT equal to animals when it comes to counsciecessness. Ideally, I would like to not have to kill or sanction the killing of any living thing. Sadly this is not the case, but I draw the line where I can. If I lived in the days where meat was necessary for survival I would be perfectly fine with the moral issue of killing animals for food, although the thought of eating dead flesh would still be disgusting. When we became sentient, we stopped behaving like "normal" animals. Therefore we have moral responsibilities to make ourselves better than animals and not worse. These are my beliefs, and I respect differences of opinon by people who respect mine. Dedication to one's own beliefs and respect of conflicting ones is a difficult balance, and I sometimes fail to keep it, but I try my best.

Would you let yourself die so a virus could live?

Ironically, viruses are vegetarian - the specific virus of diseases is now regarded as a microscopic living vegetable organism which multiplies within the body, and, either by its own action or by the associated development of a chemical poison, causes the phenomena of the special disease.

Would you let yourself die so bacteria could live? Think cheese and wine before you rush to answer in the affirmative.

After reading this thread and realizing how many vegetarians are on h2g2, I hastily created the H2G2 Vegetarian Society. It is a place where we can discuss vegetarian issues in a positive environment, and there are links to vegetarian resources on the web. Come join us. There's no obligation to do anything, and you automatically get a link to your home page upon joining. You can't beat free advertising!

Please click this link to check us out: http://www.h2g2.com/A299315

If you have any questions, I set up an email address for the HVS. It's [email protected]

At the risk of stepping into what looks like a sensitive subject and as vegetarian who would wholeheartedly defend any one's right to eat meat if they so choose, I would like to point out something. It is a universally accepted fact among evolutionary biologists (i know, my husband is one) that the reason modern man ancestors' brains increased in size is almost certainly due the sudden and increased instance of eating fish. Once man start to fish and eat the catch, the development of mankind came on in leaps and bounds. Whether you choose to see that as progress is up to you.

And incidentally I am vegetarian for the simple reason of Vanity. It pays me to keep my looks and I am not ashamed to say it.

I would just like to state that I completely agree with what Dr. Prune (sorry, Prunesquallor) has said.

Best Regards,
Steerpike/Rhys

Whoever it was who said it, that if you go to a vegetarian restaurant and ask for meat etc: The whole point is that it's meat free, why would you expect to get meat there? It's like going to a school uniform shop and saying 'hey you don't cater for adults'. I personally don't require a vegetarian restaurant (as they exist now) because their food is all salads and crummy watery crapola. However, I understand their purpose and it doesn't harm me if people enjoy that kind of thing.

I have heard that humans are natural carnivores because of the type of teeth we have. ie. They are shaped for the tearing of flesh.

Not taking sides here as I eat meat, but aren't there a lot more varieties with vegetables than meat? I mean with meat you have poultry, beef, and fish right?

I tried a vegetarian diet for close to four years mainly because the girl I was seeing at the time was a strict vegetarian. But she was a veggie for humanitarian reasons and I was just curious for the health benefits. It got to the point (this was the seventies of course) that I would only buy rennetless cheese and mayo not made with real eggs. After about four years of this crap, I finally came to the conclusion that food is food, period. If you are hungry, you'll eat a seagull sandwich. As far as changing the worlds thinking, bullcrap! Just like there will always be wars, there will always be people that eat meat.

a comparison between eating meat and wars; from my point of view, wars are a negative thing to do, and killing animals is a negative thing to do. just because I know that the majority of other people will still eat meat, this doesn't mean that I shouldn't do what I think is right. As with wars, I know wars will continue for a long time, if not indefinitely, but that doesn't mean that I am a supporter of them, just because I know that I am pretty much powerless. Another analogy; people have and will continue to abuse children. Does this mean that you should abuse children? No of course not. The reaction should be 'Unfortunately, people do abuse children, but I will not do it on the grounds that I think it is wrong, even though me not doing it doesn't stop the people who continue doing it.' Well that's how I see it anyway.